Blogging Bayport Alameda

June 21, 2013

In-N-Out In

Filed under: Alameda, Alameda Landing, Development — Tags: , — Lauren Do @ 6:01 am

It’s official.  It’s In-N-Out coming to Alameda Landing’s drive-thru parcel, I mean “entry site.”   But in addition to In-N-Out the parcel will be rounded out with a Chase Bank and the Safeway Gas Station which we all knew was coming since there was that whole Safeway wants a gas station thing.   Look, the whole entry site is turning out to be a little low rent, but honestly, given the difficulty of actually getting into that site, it’s amazing that they were able to get anyone interested in it at all.     I mean, when Catellus first sold this as a drive-thru development they really knew their market.   All of the retailers are of the drive thru variety, except I guess some people do actually eat at In-N-Out.

So here’s the general plan.   Everyone knows where they are right?  At the top is Webster, bottom is Stargell.   In-N-Out will be at the, um, rounded tip.  The Safeway gas will be closest to the Safeway.


A few things.   It looks like they are not planning on adding a pedestrian cross walk at the across Stargell at Webster which is a complete mistake.   No one.   I mean no one is going to walk all the way down to Stargell and Mariner Square Loop to cross and then walk back to the In-N-Out.   It just is not going to happen.   Without the addition of a safe pedestrian crossing, I think we’re probably going to see an uptick in accidents between cars and pedestrians trying to access the entry site to go to In-N-Out and probably even the Safeway kiosk for snacks.   Let’s remember that the College of Alameda is right across the street and assuming that everyone will come from the Stargell and Mariner Square Loop intersection is simply shortsighted.

Also, the City, and Catellus I think, need to consider the greater impact of the Alameda Landing project and this entry project on the approach to Alameda Landing.   Now the City has already floated plans to make a cut through bike path on Neptune Park.   For those who have no idea where Neptune Park is, it’s that big piece of land near Independence Plaza and where all the flags are around the Tubes.   Long story short, I had to walk from the Lucky’s shopping center to go home (using Stargell) and the pedestrian access from Lucky’s to Stargell is pretty crappy.  Here’s what the proposal looks like:


But can you see how lame the cross walks are on the Constitution side of things.   Right now there aren’t a lot of pedestrians using that particular path.   But to get from the Lucky’s shopping center to that parcel you have to cross two streets just to double back the way you came if you don’t want to get run over.    Given that is a weirdly metered intersection anyway creating a direct route for pedestrians (controlled by a button) would make a lot of sense and wouldn’t require a weirdly meandering bike path.  But this is much less important than the pedestrian cross walk across Stargell at Webster.

And before someone complains about traffic, there is a traffic study and it is here.   Weirdly there is a suggestion to add another dedicated left hand turn lane on Mariner Square Loop on to Stargell heading toward Webster.   I’m not sure why it would be necessary and there is no real explanation either so I hope someone will ask about that.   Here’s the site recommendation plan from the Traffic study people.   It looks like the drive-thru queue for In-N-Out at 14 stacked is going to be much too short given the lines I’ve seen for In-N-Out drive-thrus.


What you’ve all been waiting for, but honestly, there’s nothing surprising about these, the renderings of the elevations.   I mean, these literally could be in Anywhere, USA:



But here is something that someone might like, entry signs. One even says “Welcome to Alameda”!



So to sum up.  Yay In-N-Out, but the access stuff needs some work.   This is before the Planning Board on Monday, but the final vote won’t be until July 8.   Reps from all the businesses should be there, so this would be a good time to, ahem, grill (rim shot) them if you like.

Oh and the opinion came back in the Ann Marie Gallant appeals case, the court essentially said the lower court was wrong and kicked the case back.  I’ll have more info on that next week, but wanted to give you all a heads up.


  1. Normally I dismiss the “this will clog the tube” folks, but this time I think they have a point… Devotion to In-N-Out is huge. And with this new development, I think the better burger joint, The Habit, is going to have a harder time of it. 😦

    Comment by davesteele — June 21, 2013 @ 7:22 am

  2. having been an in an out customer since 1978 I can’t wait …….they are giving Mc donald a run for their money , when ever an in an out open next to either burger king or mc donald , they both take a beating , do you think these large corporation would have got the message customer want fresh food … NO …They still thing they have the winning solution by tricking customers with cheap chinese made toy .

    Comment by mijoka — June 21, 2013 @ 9:06 am

  3. When you clamored for a Target & a fast food joint, what did you think it would look like?

    Comment by dave — June 21, 2013 @ 9:25 am

  4. I still have no idea where the hell this thing is. But if there is an innout and a Safeway gas station on the west end, I’ll be hitting those up on my way back from downtown (I’M GOING TO BE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO CLOG THE TUBE BWHAHAHAHA)

    Also this Innout is a great location, especially considering there’s not one on the “bay side” from Pinole all the way to Hegenberger.

    Comment by E — June 21, 2013 @ 9:39 am

  5. @E here’s the location in context, it’s the blue marker in the center:

    Comment by Lauren Do — June 21, 2013 @ 10:04 am

  6. For the uninitiated: Before you lump InNOut in with the rest of the “ff joints”, read about it & definitely try it!
    The episode of California Gold [Huell Howser] on the history of InNOut from humble Mom-N-Pop post-war beginnings in Baldwin Park, CA to where it is today, is one of the best & always generates a burger run the night it airs. InNOut is not McDonalds, Burger King, or any other nationwide chain. It’s a solid California Dream story. The granddaughter of the founders heads up the company today. It sponsors charities that feed the local homeless and combat child abuse.
    Finally something worthwhile open after midnite that isn’t a bar. Thank you, Mr. Russo! .

    Comment by vigi — June 21, 2013 @ 10:15 am

  7. that’s gonna be rough access coming through the tube. Oh well, I would rather have that and more choice in alameda! yeeee

    Comment by E — June 21, 2013 @ 12:36 pm

  8. getting to In-N-Out next to Wallmart off Hegenberger is a pain in the ass too, but straggling through Wallmart parking lot or driving past Toyota to enter more directly doesn’t back up traffic. This parcel with bank, gas station and burger joint is a literal island with one entry point and one can imagine traffic jammed up within the mini island. I disagree Lauren about the 14 car que at least compared to the HegenBurger location where I take our son twice a year or so. They are so fast, the que never gets that backed up anyway. In-N-Out! FYI- significant numbers of folks park and enter to order even if they don’t eat on site.

    Having been on board one of the first self appointed citizen committees to consult on the off ramp reconfiguration back in the 1990s when Barbara Kerr drew people into a discussion, I’ve thought a lot about the hair pin exit onto Stargell, but since when I come screaming out of the tube I always head toward Constitution, or at least Webster, I never get to practice what the maneuver will be like.

    The length of the delta from two lanes to four is pretty short and even with the Stargell exit increased to two lanes the turn requires a big slow down compared to hitting Constitution at illegally high speeds.

    When driving north 880 toward 24, when you hit the newest reconfiguration, the dog leg ( similar to the one on the bay bridge which caused a truck to flip over the railing) was confusing and unsettling until I drove it a couple dozen times. There was a bad accident right at that point within a couple weeks of the change. So, the point I want to make is that to Alameda commuters will get used to the drill, but if In-N-Out and Target do draw folks from off island it could get interesting.

    Before GPS one of the great challenges for visitors was to find Mariner Square. Even from the east end we must have inadvertently gone through the tube to Oakland a couple times trying to find Chevy’s. I hope this post isn’t too rambling for “John” or whoever posted as “Too Cool for School”.

    Comment by M.I. — June 21, 2013 @ 3:23 pm

  9. Hey, Lauren and others, I’ve waited 70 years for something good to happen in the West End. Its happening so don’t rain on my parade. I don’t give a shit if Target doesn’t look P.C. and I don’t give a s–t if it’s a hairpin turn out of the tube to get there, and I don’t give a s–t if there is a giant parking lot. I’m with Dave what the heck did you think we would have there, some sort of beautiful dream park with gorgeous restaurants, sitting area’s and people walking around throwing rose petals on you while you waited to shop at target??. I am thrilled to have what we will have, after all do you really think it can look any worse than South Shore??. and to see Vigi thank Mr. Russo I just fell over.

    Comment by John P.(L) — June 21, 2013 @ 6:38 pm

  10. #8 That 880 ‘dogleg’ is terrible. I am really surprised there haven’t been more accidents.

    Comment by frank — June 22, 2013 @ 4:42 am

  11. I never shop at Target or eat at ‘In-N-Out’. But the people in the City wanted both of these businesses for years and I’m happy they got them.

    Comment by frank — June 22, 2013 @ 4:45 am

  12. 9. John P I’m sort of agnostic on all of it, though in terms of signage etc. ugly is ugly, but basic logistics are what they are and I’ll be surprised if hair pin exit doesn’t back up and people stuck in the tunnel will give a shit. Also, the logistics of the In-N-Out mini island look potentially awful. If they scrapped the bank and had a bigger auto lagoon it might relax navigating in there . Don’t read my comments as jumping on nay sayer band wagon, just observations. I hope for the sake of your parade my observations are wrong. I’m not that invested in being right, it’s just what I’m seeing when I look at these drawings.

    It’s simple fact that dog leg on 880 is awful. You can see dozens of skid marks all over 100 yard stretch. Also the restriping of new lanes across old lane paving is absolutely freaky. Our north bound on ramp from the 23rd avenue overpass has always been tense visually becuase of blind spots in rear view and the reconfiguration across original lane paving has altered what was a long slow merger with second on ramp merging in front of you as you crane your neck to see people speeding up on you in the right lane. This isn’t about PC, it’s about “steering is not enough”, and I’ll wait to see how Stargell off ramp sorts out. Sorry to bump your trip.

    also: I think it was a good move to run Target out of South Shore. Even with vacancies the parking lot is reasonably challenging. I don’t care if they put parking on the roof, if a Target would have brought hundreds more shoppers a day IMHO navigating in and out of Southshore would be dubious venture. I’m not somebody who has been screaming TRAFFIC! every time there is any new development, but there are limits somewhere. I often have to remember to to turn off Park at San Jose to get to our place on Oak to avoid waiting a couple minutes to progress to Clinton. It’s just a couple minutes, but it’s like mission creep, or boiling the frog.

    Comment by MI — June 22, 2013 @ 9:13 am

  13. Helen Sause wrote a great op-ed piece on the Alamedan supporting the center, but wanting to see more work done on the design. I agree whole heartedly with her comments and hope to see a much better design in their next presentation on July 8th.

    I’m not too crazy about packing a gas station, a bank and a burger place all on that small lot — but the gas station has already been approved and everyone is ecstatic about In and Out Burger. I do hope that the new Chase Bank will prompt other banks to come back to Webster Street.

    I like the Welcome to Alameda sign and the fact that Alameda Landing is part of the Webster Street District. Hopefully this will encourage more investment on Webster Street.

    Comment by Karen Bey — June 22, 2013 @ 10:48 am

  14. The ‘in’ of in-n-further-in.

    Comment by Jack Richard — June 22, 2013 @ 1:04 pm

  15. 8, 10, 12. I wonder if any of you know what the speed limit is in that Construction Zone that includes the “880 dogleg?” Have you ever gone that slow through it?

    Comment by Tom Schweich — June 22, 2013 @ 2:41 pm

  16. #15 I’m old I always drive slow. This is a terrible design. I don’t know if this is permanent but it just comes up on you without any warning that I can see.

    Comment by frank — June 22, 2013 @ 3:28 pm

  17. what can be so possibly hard about coming out of the tube and going right, left, or straight. If you haven’t made up your mind where you are going before you reach that point then you have a problem. Life is so simple.

    Comment by John P.(L) — June 22, 2013 @ 3:53 pm

  18. I’m in the tube going 45 mph, I know I have to go to Lucky’s. Boom my quick mind tells me stay to the left.

    Comment by John P.(L) — June 22, 2013 @ 3:54 pm

  19. I’m in the tube and I know I’m going to Wescafe for a wonderful lunch, Oh I’m going 43 mph. My quick mind tells me go straight.

    Comment by John P.(L) — June 22, 2013 @ 3:57 pm

  20. I’m in the tube and I’m going to Bayport to see Lauren Do to tell her how much I like her blogging site. I’m going 41 mph my quick mind tells me to slow down and turn right. See it isn’t that hard to figure out folks.

    Comment by John P.(L) — June 22, 2013 @ 4:00 pm

  21. 10, 12: Are you talking about the 880-980 split that happens just as you get on the 6th St onramp?

    Comment by alameda — June 22, 2013 @ 9:53 pm

  22.’s before that 980 merge which is tricky at best, right before the northbound Broadway off ramp . That is the dog leg. Your photo seems to be from before the change as roadway is dead straight. The stress starts at on 23rd Ave on ramp after Nikko’s with muddled lanes and crummy paving. People like to scream in to 980 merge at 80mph to hit off ramp at last second. I approach in left lane and after 16th ave begin to merge right before Oak Street off ramp and if I can’t get comfortably in right lane well before Broadway off ramp I look for the people exiting Broadway and slip over into the void they leave and then wait for steel missiles which inevitably come careening in from the left as sixth street people are simultaneously attempting to merge onto 980 or 880 north from the right. The on ramp people while traveling more slowly can be totally cluless about asserting intent with signals or making eye contact. On a bad day one feels like dead meat sandwiched between maniacs and dimwits. I of course am the safest driver on the road! It is my least favorite stretch of freeway ever. When the dog leg first appeared it threw off my whole routine, and for a while I inadvertently joined the ranks of late mergers in panic, freaked out by semi trucks inches away as we all made the weird sickening maneuver like NASCAR.

    15. not to be too much of a wise ass, but “screaming out of the tube” was an attempt at sarcasm for effect. I try to go with the flow for safety, cause sometimes extremely slow drivers who are too scared to be on the road can be as big of a hazard as speeding maniacs. Ever slowed to allow somebody to merge at an on ramp (Fruitvale) and they slow down even more? That’s when I slam the accelerator and blow past.

    But J.P., you know where you are going! It’s about two things really. 1) The lowest common denominator of drivers AND 2) people who don’t know where they are headed who may be freaked by seeing exit whiz by and make sudden moves. In terms of Tom’s reference to local speed limits I hope all the signage is large and clear, but where do you post signs with in the tube? I’m thinking the sign which will say, “Hey You! Extremely short ramp with radical turn ahead: slow the F down!”
    The lane change delta is super short, right at the out fall of the tube and on an up hill incline.

    Comment by MI — June 23, 2013 @ 5:51 pm

  23. 14.Jack, you a boob man? The content of that salad has a higher I.Q. than Jenny McCarthy, but who am I to say she is stupid since she hauled down more cash on one salacious T&A ad than I make in a year, while I hump lumber all day.

    Comment by MI — June 23, 2013 @ 5:57 pm

  24. If you bumped into Jenny McCarthy, she wouldn’t feel it.

    Comment by Dr. Brezst Implantz, MD — June 23, 2013 @ 6:11 pm

  25. You got it all wrong, MI, the link was all about Carl’s. Since everybody here (I’m not there, it’s raining here) seems to be experiencing orgiastic spermburgers cuming in-n-out of the tube, I thought I’d remind them there are other venues for pleasure.

    Comment by Jack Richard — June 23, 2013 @ 8:04 pm

  26. “In-N-Out will be at the, um, rounded tip” —- you are hilarious Lauren! now every time i look at this map, that’s all i see! 🙂

    Comment by ryan — June 24, 2013 @ 2:36 pm

  27. Notice how the, um, rounded tip is at 3/4 mast in her first picture but then droops to a totally flaccid state when she sticks a #5 blue pin in?

    Comment by Jack Richard — June 24, 2013 @ 3:00 pm

  28. 25, Jack, guess what, it’s raining here too. Where are you ? Bangkok red light district?

    Comment by M.I. — June 24, 2013 @ 7:51 pm

  29. Nagaland searching for the elusive ghost chili.

    Comment by Jack Richard — June 25, 2013 @ 9:19 am

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