I didn’t make it out to the Alameda Point Task Force meeting last week, I simply figured that I could catch it on-line, which I did. Turns out, it was eerily similar to the meeting on the Hornet, but without the really great turnout. John Knox White at Stop, Drop and Roll has some reflections from the meeting here, but what did stand out to me, is something that John KW had captured:
…Historic Preservation was a theme from a couple of speakers. However it’s time for the discussion to move beyond “Save every building plus a couple of others” and on to a discussion of what Alameda Point is going to be and how historical preservation can enhance it. I am concerned, as one of the speakers Wednesday night mentioned, that the current discussion focuses too much on maintaining a military base, rather than a vibrant neighborhood that reflects its past. We need to decide, and I’d suggest that never 15 years of public process already has, whether we want to create a WWII “Historic Williamsburg” without the reenactors, something that could very well become a big drag on city finances and is probably financially infeasible due to the infrastructure and clean-up costs. Or are we aiming to create a neighborhood that reflects and complements our existing city with it’s mix of historical and new buildings and that contributes to the both the financial, the amenities and the character of our city…
During the meeting one of the first speakers jumped all over the idea of historic preservation right away and made the contentions that many (I believe she might have said 13) of the tables were concerned about some element of historic preservation. In fact, she went as far as to say that several people made note that the greenest building is one that is already there. When in actuality it was one person who said that, maybe it was the rest of the table that tacitly agreed to, but during the report out on the Hornet, only one person actually said that the greenest building is the one that is already there. Which may be true to a certain extent, but I don’t know how “green” some of the buildings are at the point that may be dilapidated to the point that they are uninhabitable without serious rehabilitation. But anyway, I digress.
Look, I’m not a preservationist, I do see the value in maintaining some of the buildings on Alameda Point to maintain the history of what used to be there, but just because something is old doesn’t necessarily mean that it needs to be saved. I felt as though Task Force member Ann Cook did a nice job with challenging the notion that everything needed to be saved out at the Point and asking the member of the public what she felt as though was significant about some of the buildings and whether they all needed to be saved or if a few could be maintained in order to capture the flavor of what was happening. Personally, I found the reason proferred by the person who said that not enough historic buildings were going to be maintained to be really weak. It involved something about the hangars being significant (seaplane and land based) because it showed that was the type of activity that was going on during World War II.
At this point, if there is the continuing insistance that it be “all the historic buildings” or nothing, it really will feel as though the preservation community is out to create some sort of standing homage to World War II activity but without the people in fancy dress talking about how to churn butter or build a better aircraft. I recall at the meeting on the Hornet, one of the people at my table was pretty unsure of why she was there except to say that she really wanted the Big Whites to be saved. That was pretty much her only goal and that she had received correpondance from the Preservation Society asking folks to get out there in order to talk about the historic buildings out at the Point.
While I’m sure that some of the buildings are historically significant, they can’t all be. Some of the housing looks like typical military housing that you can see on military bases everywhere, like Treasure Island, I’m sure Mare Island has some as well. And whiel I know some folks see charm in the hangars, one or two would be welcome but keeping all of them wouldn’t work to make Alameda Point feel like a community, just like a poorly planned military base.
I think that the expectation to save everything is completely unreasonable, I know that SunCal has offered to work (and has worked) with the Preservation community to talk about what is considered significant out at the Point along with their Preservation consultant (and big Oakland power broker) Phil Tagami.
While I know that folks have reservations about even doing anything at Alameda Point, I think the question remains that since something is going to be done, whether it is done by SunCal or done in piecemeal whether we want to build a community at Alameda Point or just make it look like a military base with converted uses inside. I honestly think, however, that if SunCal doesn’t work out and the project is done in piecemeal, the Preservation Community is going to have a much bigger battle on their hands trying to convince several developers to save all the buildings they want as opposed to holding leverage over one developer to save a large majority of historically significant buildings.
Business-to-Business sales tax revenue from light industry – businesses of the type that could re-use the existing buildings at Alameda Point – jumped 51% in the 1st quarter of 2008. Should we be trying to lure more Peet’s Coffee businesses to Alameda Point to re-use the existing buildings, rather than tear them down and build houses? Would light-industry re-use of buildings at Alameda Point provide for more preservation of historic buildings? Commercial use, rather than residential use, of Alameda Point would be more consistent with the level of clean-up that the Navy agreed to do.
http://actionalameda.org/actionalamedanewsblog/2008/09/04/business-to-business-sales-tax-revenue-jumps-51-in-1st-quarter/
Comment by better traffic solutions — September 5, 2008 @ 7:52 am
If the historic preservation speaker was talking about “green” as in green mold, then they are right. Traditionally “green” in this context is supposed to mean environmentally sustainable and healthy. What is environmentally sustainable and healthy about buildings coated in lead based pain and asbestos, energy hogs because they aren’t insulated, and fire hazards because they were built as temporary structures and not to any code?
Comment by notadave — September 5, 2008 @ 7:56 am
Nobody at the meeting said to save all the buildings; nobody expects that. JKW’s line is another example of his inherent dishonesty and attemps to manipulate. It has always been clear that we want to save and reuse structures out there. Calthorpe and SunCal were unable or unwilling to disclose how many or which buildings would be saved. Apparently no hangers they feel are worth reusing, they suggested that the Bladium as a business may be relocated. They only mentioned that all the ‘great whites’ could be saved.
Comment by David Kirwin — September 5, 2008 @ 7:57 am
David, if you have actually looked at any of the SunCal plans, at least one of the seaplane hangars is slated to be saved and most of the air hanagars are also still shown on the maps as building to be saved. These maps were shoen at the Aug 7 meeting and the task force meeting.
Comment by Alameda Fan — September 5, 2008 @ 9:59 am
#1 – I am not sure that Business-to-Business rev from light industry has become a positive trend here, although I would like to see this happen.
If anyone drives through the various business parks, you will see green manicured lawns, “for lease” signs and a small number of businesses in operation.
The owners of these business properties are not worried about the fact that the buildings are empty, because this provides them a huge annual write-off.
I agree that existing commercial buildings (of which there are many located at AP) should be UTILIZED.
We have glut of commerical space– why build more? And yet, more is being built. Seems like a crazy waste of money and resources.
As for re-use at AP, it makes complete sense that if there are buildings out there that are already converted and in use, why slate them for the wrecking ball? At LEAST keep them LEASED while the “neighborhood” is being created, and then see how they can be worked in, or not, to the developing scheme (once development starts, whenever the heck that is–but not looking like any time soon…)?
Comment by E T — September 5, 2008 @ 10:14 am
The owners of these business properties are not worried about the fact that the buildings are empty, because this provides them a huge annual write-off.
——
Huh? Empty buildings are a benefit? That’s like recommending unemployment to reduce your income tax.
Comment by dave — September 5, 2008 @ 10:19 am
As weird as that sounds, it is the truth. Loss of potential revenue is a write-off. If the land were unbuilt, I’m not so sure, but if it has structures and the owner has to pay a managment company and for up-keep services, minimum power and water, and yeah, you bet your bippy the owners write off loss of potential revenue. They would be stupid not to do so.
Comment by E T — September 5, 2008 @ 10:26 am
I have to correct myself… loss of potential income is not a write-off, but certainly all the money that is paid for management, maintenance, upkeep, security… all of that is a write-off.
Comment by E T — September 5, 2008 @ 10:29 am
It’s a writeoff because it’s a LOSS. If you think that’s a boon, you’re invited to my next card game.
Comment by dave — September 5, 2008 @ 10:36 am
If you have a large portfolio of properties, this type of a write-off (due to loss) can well be a boon, particularly when the economy is in recession.
Comment by E T — September 5, 2008 @ 11:47 am
Bring your checkbook.
Comment by dave — September 5, 2008 @ 11:55 am
I spoke with someone a couple of years ago who knew a lot about the hangars and they were constructed to withstand some incredible amount of blast force (I think possibly even nuclear). They are unique structures that have many potential re-uses and in my opinion they should be off limits.
Comment by Mike Rich — September 5, 2008 @ 3:58 pm
# 12 Nuclear weapons didn’t even exist when those hangars were built. Whoever told you that “blast force” tale was blowing smoke. The hangars barely made it through the Loma Prieta earthquake. Unique structures!?? Maybe Hangar One at Moffett Field is unique. Those eyesores at the Alameda Naval Air Station are a dime a dozen.
Comment by Jack Richard — September 5, 2008 @ 4:29 pm
Much as I hate to agree with Jack R. [
] in the case of a nuclear bombing, all the structures on the island would likely be vaporized, along with the greater Bay Area. = :-O
Perhaps the hangars were built to hold up under high winds, but I doubt they would stand up to a hurricane.
Comment by E T — September 5, 2008 @ 4:41 pm
Oh, and I forgot to add, that even though they might not stand up to a nuclear bomb or a hurricane, I still think they can be re-used and agree with Mike R. that they should be!
Comment by E T — September 5, 2008 @ 4:43 pm
I love those hangars! We already have a winery and a distillery and I want a brewery with a variety of small and large beer halls. Rosenblum’s draws them in from far and wide and now the distillery has also become a destination. This is a great route to go as we are actually producing something for sale in Alameda and combining that with a tourist draw. The hangars are a great asset.
Comment by AlamedaNayTiff — September 5, 2008 @ 5:01 pm
It is interesting that the task force meeting is getting so much attention when so few people actually participated, and those that did presented a really one-sided, and for the most part uninformed opinion on the project.
I wonder how many people remember the very first PDC planning meetings that took place a few years back when APCP was the developer. Even then most of the folks that participated (these were at multiple locations and multiple places)expressed an opinion that a non MA compliant plan was the preferred plan. Barbara Kerr was still on the City Council and she tried to get the council to not accept the report back from the meetings. The only reason, and if you go back and read the PDC carefully you will see it in writing, that a Measure A compliant plan was adopted as the PDC, was that that was all the city allowed them to put in. If the truly preferred plan (preferred by the community that is) was allowed to be adopted as the PDC, it would have looked similar to what Suncal is proposing now.
At the first community meeting conducted by SUncal, they also presented a measure A compliant plan that was clearly not favored by the member of the public in attendance, and no – before the folks in aluminum hats speak up – Suncal did not bus people to the meeting.
So at this late date for people to stand up and say “where is the measure A plan” is a waste of time, and an attempt to negate a lot of effort that the community has put in so far. I sincerely hope that the task force meeting and the lopsided comments made are acknowledged as the anomoly that they are.
Regarding the historic buildings, this is also a matter of late comers totally ignoring the process that has taken place so far, and inventing their own reality. There is not a single declared historic building out there, not one. zip, nada. There is an historic district. In making the determination, the state felt that there were no single buildings that warranted historic status, but that there was a look and feel of the area that warranted historic consideration. One could argue quite effectively that one or two buildings, situated properly would preserve that historic look and feel.
Comment by notadave — September 5, 2008 @ 5:11 pm
I’d love to see a year-round farmers market in one. Part of the interior could be held for “pick-up” of pre-ordered boxes of organic produce. Indoor farmers markets are extremely popular year-round in Pennsylvania from Lancaster County to Philly, and those are just the ones I know about. Of course being located ‘out on an island’ makes any retail harder to market without ample vehicle access and parking. (I think we have the parking covered if we can get Sun Cal to save the big structures)
They should keep the 1800 residential units in the Point’s ‘central highlands’ and not move all the contaminated soil.
Comment by David Kirwin — September 5, 2008 @ 5:20 pm