Blogging Bayport Alameda

November 27, 2007

Styrofoam at the mouth

Filed under: Alameda, Business — Lauren Do @ 6:51 am

Is “yucky” according to Donna Meadows of the Little House Cafe on Blanding, home to Alameda’s first grass parking lot.    From the Alameda Journal, it appears that Alameda is going to move forward toward a ban on stryofoam:

…The city is considering a ban on polystyrene food containers, and it may happen as early as next month.

A meeting to discuss the proposed ban and get public input will be held from 7 to 9 p.m. Thursday at City Hall, 2263 Santa Clara Ave.

Prohibited items would include take-out food containers, bowls, plates, trays, cartons and cups, according to a press release the city issued last week.

In addition, restaurants, food vendors and city facilities will be required to use containers that can break down in nature, unless an affordable alternative is not available.

The city has suggested that restaurants and food vendors could charge a “take-out fee” to customers to cover the cost difference for purchasing the alternative product…

 Of course, as we know Alameda will not be the first, nor hopefully the last, to consider a ban on styrofoam.   So far, my personal experience with having take-out in some of the cities where there is a ban is that it’s actually better for some of the food items to not be encased in styrofoam.   Although the notable exception is soup.   Now I’m not talking about your old chicken noodle or clam chowder that is generally at lukewarm (if that) temperatures.   I’m talking about the soup that comes with your good old fashion asian noodle soups.   One restaurant that I have been going to since I was a wee one in San Francisco, Hai Ky Mi Gai, (used to be a real hole in the wall, now that they have remodelled it’s sort of nicer) has some issues adapting its core menu to the stryofoam ban.   When you get an order to go they have to put the soup broth — high on the MSG, so if your tolerance level is low, this joint is not for you, or just get the dry noodles — in a clear plastic container which is thin and not insulated like styrofoam.   This is not ideal because the soup cools a lot faster, which they seem to have compensated for by making the broth even hotter and you tend to get singed a little on the outside of the container.   So I think it’s imperitive that, as Councilmember Lena Tam said in the Journal article, that whatever is done works for Alameda and isn’t simply just a copy of other cities.  

Maybe Alameda should opt for a “bring your own container” for credit as is already done for coffee places like Starbucks and Peet’s.    That would definitely be interesting the next time you are getting items to go at your favorite restaurant or even getting a “doggy bag” of unfinished food items from your dinner.   Could you imagine pulling out tupperware from your purse/European man bag and handing it to the server?

21 Comments »

  1. Here’s a good solution for soup lovers…

    http://www.zojirushi.com/ourproducts/lunchjars/sl_jae.html

    Comment by Jack B — November 27, 2007 @ 8:43 am

  2. Re. Yucky Styrofoam

    “So far, my personal experience with having take-out in some of the cities where there is a ban is that it’s actually better for some of the food items to not be encased in styrofoam”.

    Don’t think this is about making food taste better. It’s the dogooder nanny state’s latest effort to feel good. There are many legitimate arguments that Polystyrene is less harmful to the environment than paper or plastic.

    Who was it said, “I’m an idealist. I don’t know where I’m going but I’m on my way”.

    Comment by Jack Richard — November 27, 2007 @ 12:29 pm

  3. I hate Styrofoam. I especially dislike getting large packages stuffed with those styro-peanuts which are impossible to clean up and flat around the house for months.

    I wouldn’t be offended if Styrofoam was banned,but then again, I haven’t actually used any of it for years except for the occasional package. As a kid, it seemed like anything you got at Mcdonald’s was packaged in Styrofoam. Chicken Mcnuggets, Coke, Big Macs, and Hot cakes all came in it. I don’t usually eat at fast food joints often, but when I do, I have noticed that the majority of what they serve now comes in wax coated paper. That’s sort of ironic because of the many times me and my wife have eaten at one of the finer establishments in Alameda, the leftover boxes are always large Styrofoam containers.

    The thing is that if a simple 1 cent paper sleeve made drinking boiling-hot coffee handleable, then surely a similar disposable paper thing could be devised for food items. The man who invented that paper sleeve is now a millionaire, so for some of you entrepreneurial types, there’s your ticket.

    lastly, in regards to the loving, “dogooder nanny state”, well I’d say that a large majority of what they pass is ultimately good on down the road, but some are simply stupid. Like banning diesel cars. There are plenty of super-modern bluetech diesels in Europe that are actually cleaner than conventional gas cars, and regularly get 50 and 60MPG. I know because my wife’s parents have a VW Jetta diesel. Putting aside the fact that the car is a disaster in mechanical engineering,it gets 53MPG. You would think that perhaps allowing clean diesels would better serve some of our more pressing international concerns. Oh well- that’s another debate altogether, but one decision on California’s part that seems shortsighted.

    Comment by edvard — November 27, 2007 @ 2:32 pm

  4. Got another interesting ad from Bed B and B in today’s mail. This one had the same erroneous address - 2246 South Shore Center -, but this ad included a map (they must have heard of all the lost souls out searching for SS over the weekend). Trouble is, the map shows Bed B and B at some place called Alameda Towne Center. Wonder if that’s in the centre of town. The $5 off coupon doesn’t expire till 12/31/07 so we’ll tank up, scrape the Styrofoam off the windshield and keep searching.

    Comment by Jack Richard — November 27, 2007 @ 5:03 pm

  5. People tend to get used to bringing their own containers when they are charged extra for the use of a disposable container - even a few tiny pennies, rather than getting a discount/credit if they bring their own. I’ve heard that IKEA is doing this for bags now, as they have been doing in at least some of Europe for some time now. If grocery stores and cafes would actually charge a few pennies extra for a cup or bag, then I’m sure folks would be more likely to bring their own next time….

    Comment by Dan W. — November 27, 2007 @ 8:58 pm

  6. I would like to see a ban on the plastic shopping bags also. I have many years of bringing my own bags to the market. Plastic bags once ruined an engine of a car I owned.

    Comment by Kevis Brownson — November 28, 2007 @ 12:33 am

  7. You can actually recycle those plastic bags, but they have to be taken to the grocery store and placed in a bin out front. I suppose the plastic they’re made of isn’t typical of recyclable plastic or something.

    Anyway, it is amazing how many bags we accumulate in a month or two. We have a big bag in the laundry room that we will cram full of them before taking them to the store. One time we actually filled the bin out front with them. Just to imagine that most probably get trashed.

    Comment by edvard — November 28, 2007 @ 8:19 am

  8. Instead of tossing plastic bags in the recycle bin, why not reuse them at the store? If you reuse a plastic bag just once, you’ve reduced plastic waste by 50%. Reuse twice: reduce waste by 67%, etc. I once told this to a neighbor of mine, and she seemed stunned by my revelation.

    Comment by James Chen — November 29, 2007 @ 5:32 pm

  9. James your post # 8 makes so much sense, but we are not dealing with sense. It is to bad that we can’t figure out what James has just posted. My wife carries several reuseable Trader Joes shopping bags in the driver side door of our car so when she goes to the store she simply grabs the bags and heads in to the store. Naturally I don’t have them in my work truck so I am one of the bad people.
    I think that if we just tried a little bit we could get along fine without the plastic bags. John P.

    Comment by john piziali — November 29, 2007 @ 6:59 pm

  10. Keep it up James, John and Kevis too. Plastic bags are only good for doggy doo.

    Comment by Jack Richard — November 29, 2007 @ 7:46 pm

  11. I forgot to add that most stores will credit you 3-5 cents per bag that you reuse. I calculate that I save approximately $26 per year through bag-reuse. I’m not an environmentalist, just a cheapskate (we’re a one-income family).

    Comment by James Chen — November 29, 2007 @ 10:39 pm

  12. # 8

    Instead of throwing toilet paper away after using only one side, how about saving it and then using the un-used side at the next movement. Reduce waste by 50%. I suggested this to my wife and she seemed stunned by my revelation.

    Comment by Jack Richard — November 30, 2007 @ 9:19 am

  13. Jack,

    Fold the toilet paper first. That works better.

    Comment by James Chen — November 30, 2007 @ 10:45 am

  14. Fold with the used side inward, I hope. Thanx James

    Comment by Jack Richard — November 30, 2007 @ 11:07 am

  15. I think we should all stop walking because walking these days requires the use of shoes, which waste precious plastic, rubber, and fiber.

    Comment by edvard — November 30, 2007 @ 4:25 pm

  16. In a recent 3 wk visit to France, I adapted to the no-bag provision at major supermarkets. If you didn’t bring your own carry-bags, hand cart or thermo-bag for frozen items, you would purchase a bag. Customers would deposit a Euro coin for a shopping cart to take purchases to their car. The deposit is returned once the cart is returned to the dock at the front of the store.

    Various take-out shops allowed a customer to bring in an approved container - in one case a stainless steel vacuum container.

    Drove nearly 700 miles in a Citroen C3 diesel. A 4 passenger compact that kept up with turnpike traffic while maintaining a whopping 57 mpg! (With conversion from liters to gallons).

    We have a lot to learn.

    Comment by Paladin — November 30, 2007 @ 8:14 pm

  17. So what’s to learn? Everybody knows frogs are green.

    Comment by Jack Richard — December 1, 2007 @ 3:58 pm

  18. #17

    Nicolas Sarkozy’s battle to change France

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=D2GNIGCKTOAF5QFIQMFCFFOAVCBQYIV0?xml=/news/2007/12/02/nrsarko102.xml&page=2

    Comment by Alameda NayTiff — December 1, 2007 @ 6:30 pm

  19. Re. # 16

    HaGuWiTr, In your three week diesel put-put trip through France, did you make it to the village of Eparney, walk through the Moet et Chandon caverns and gaze at all that champagne aging in their bottles? Then, a little further northeast, did you travel to Verdun, walk through the trenches and sense the French and German bones molding in their rest? If you did, I hope you felt the irony of the two sites. Both so full of history, both so French. One the joie de vie the other the joie de mort. The joy of the revolution, the death of liberty. Irony is France. Petain, hero to traitor, de Gaulle, traitor to hero. Unfree french to unfree France.

    And now, Sarkozy the french President a Hungarian!, an admirer of Bush, a lover of America. What gives? Green frogs with three fourths of their power from nuclear power plants. While running around in their little green Citroens getting 70 mpg. What are we to make of the french?

    Clue us in Paladin, what do we have to learn?

    Comment by Jack Richard — December 1, 2007 @ 8:46 pm

  20. #19

    The green is always greener on the other side.

    Comment by Alameda NayTiff — December 2, 2007 @ 9:26 am

  21. Re # 16

    More learning from France.

    Average gas prices in France are around $7.50 per gallon (once liters and Euros are converted to gallons and dollars). Average diesel prices are about 40 percent lower. The average new gas-driven car in France gets 36 mpg.

    Average gas prices in U.S. are around $3.10 per gallon and the average auto mpg is around 27 (not counting the big SUV burners). Average diesel (auto fuel grade) in the U.S. is around $2.80 per gal.

    So, in France it costs around 12.80 cents to travel one mile in a diesel burner getting 57 miles per gallon. If une chooses to put-put in a gas fueled auto in France the cost per mile increases to around 20.8 cents.

    In the U.S. it costs around 11.48 cents to travel per mile in a gas or diesel fueled car.

    The difference in gas prices between the two countries is tax. So learning from and using the French model will get us an increase in fuel tax to equal a gas price increase of $4.40 per gallon.

    Comment by Jack Richard — December 2, 2007 @ 9:44 am

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