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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Don&#8217;t be shocked by the tone of my voice&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/</link>
	<description>Blogging about Bayport Alameda and the rest of the Island city</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 05:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jack Richard</title>
		<link>http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/#comment-56558</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 23:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/#comment-56558</guid>
		<description>Re # 4 and 13

"Should the charter be amended to exempt Alameda Point from the restrictions of article 26 (measure A)?"

That's the suggested new issue in Alameda on KD.  Hmm, why would anyone think ten (if that many) people commenting in a virtual kitchen (unless they're part of the cabinet) give a hoot about MA?  I mean it's only been the subject of rancorous discussions in every opinion outlet in every venue in Alameda since it was passed thirty some years ago.  

But that's not the question.  The question is, why would a city official give a hoot what the ten respondents opine just because their hoot's in KD?  Wow, if it were discussed in KD and KD has an "arrangement" (nefarious?) with all the king's (and queen's) (wo)men and...and others, I'm sure they would pass edict after edict reflecting the will of someone.

I'm just not getting why anyone thinks KD's anything different than...this blog, for instance. 

Plus, it's way too slow and clumsy for the lightening quick ether theater.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re # 4 and 13</p>
<p>&#8220;Should the charter be amended to exempt Alameda Point from the restrictions of article 26 (measure A)?&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the suggested new issue in Alameda on KD.  Hmm, why would anyone think ten (if that many) people commenting in a virtual kitchen (unless they&#8217;re part of the cabinet) give a hoot about MA?  I mean it&#8217;s only been the subject of rancorous discussions in every opinion outlet in every venue in Alameda since it was passed thirty some years ago.  </p>
<p>But that&#8217;s not the question.  The question is, why would a city official give a hoot what the ten respondents opine just because their hoot&#8217;s in KD?  Wow, if it were discussed in KD and KD has an &#8220;arrangement&#8221; (nefarious?) with all the king&#8217;s (and queen&#8217;s) (wo)men and&#8230;and others, I&#8217;m sure they would pass edict after edict reflecting the will of someone.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m just not getting why anyone thinks KD&#8217;s anything different than&#8230;this blog, for instance. </p>
<p>Plus, it&#8217;s way too slow and clumsy for the lightening quick ether theater.</p>
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		<title>By: Alameda NayTiff</title>
		<link>http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/#comment-56555</link>
		<dc:creator>Alameda NayTiff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 23:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/#comment-56555</guid>
		<description>"Robert Vogel remembers going to Berkeley City Council meetings and waiting hours to speak, getting heckled, and feeling intimidated. He couldn't miss that less. "They are really unpleasant affairs," says Vogel, who last stepped foot inside City Hall in January."
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/2007-07-11/news/click-here-for-democracy/

Yes, true democracy is messy and people are not always civil -- nor are they required to be. The results of public policy decisions are quite often uncivil and can cause misery and woe to many.

Democracy is not about posting opinions on a webpage. Freedom of speech is part of it, but so is working together with others to achieve a common goal. Democracy isn't one thing, but a constellation of rights and freedoms. Kitchen Democracy has as much to do with democracy as it does kitchens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Robert Vogel remembers going to Berkeley City Council meetings and waiting hours to speak, getting heckled, and feeling intimidated. He couldn&#8217;t miss that less. &#8220;They are really unpleasant affairs,&#8221; says Vogel, who last stepped foot inside City Hall in January.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/2007-07-11/news/click-here-for-democracy/" rel="nofollow">http://www.eastbayexpress.com/2007-07-11/news/click-here-for-democracy/</a></p>
<p>Yes, true democracy is messy and people are not always civil &#8212; nor are they required to be. The results of public policy decisions are quite often uncivil and can cause misery and woe to many.</p>
<p>Democracy is not about posting opinions on a webpage. Freedom of speech is part of it, but so is working together with others to achieve a common goal. Democracy isn&#8217;t one thing, but a constellation of rights and freedoms. Kitchen Democracy has as much to do with democracy as it does kitchens.</p>
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		<title>By: edvard</title>
		<link>http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/#comment-56553</link>
		<dc:creator>edvard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 23:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/#comment-56553</guid>
		<description>I actually read about KD awhile back. I'm not 100% sold on the idea, but I do agree with their basic premise, which is that discussions and the ability to take part in city politics is difficult.

  Many of the meetings happen in the middle of weekdays, meaning only retirees and stay at home moms can likely attend. Either that or they're early in the evening- way before many of us get off work. So from that perspective, I agree.

 In regards to the latest-greatest plans for Alameda Point, well the biggest issue in regards to affordability will solve itself sooner or later. This just in the paper today. Enjoy the read:


"The Mercury News. “Alameda Realtor David Gunderman said he’s seen home prices and sales soften. In general, he said, the softening market is affecting those buying homes for the first time. The reason is that lenders have tightened their lending standards.”

“‘Those people (buyers) were taking a risk, and the lender was allowing them to do so,’ he said. ‘Those people are no longer in the market, which is good, responsible lending. It got irresponsible for a while there and that’s why we’re feeling the pinch right now. It’s a correction, a necessary correction.’”

“Broker Michael Studebaker said…Harbor Bay Isle home sales were suffering.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually read about KD awhile back. I&#8217;m not 100% sold on the idea, but I do agree with their basic premise, which is that discussions and the ability to take part in city politics is difficult.</p>
<p>  Many of the meetings happen in the middle of weekdays, meaning only retirees and stay at home moms can likely attend. Either that or they&#8217;re early in the evening- way before many of us get off work. So from that perspective, I agree.</p>
<p> In regards to the latest-greatest plans for Alameda Point, well the biggest issue in regards to affordability will solve itself sooner or later. This just in the paper today. Enjoy the read:</p>
<p>&#8220;The Mercury News. “Alameda Realtor David Gunderman said he’s seen home prices and sales soften. In general, he said, the softening market is affecting those buying homes for the first time. The reason is that lenders have tightened their lending standards.”</p>
<p>“‘Those people (buyers) were taking a risk, and the lender was allowing them to do so,’ he said. ‘Those people are no longer in the market, which is good, responsible lending. It got irresponsible for a while there and that’s why we’re feeling the pinch right now. It’s a correction, a necessary correction.’”</p>
<p>“Broker Michael Studebaker said…Harbor Bay Isle home sales were suffering.”</p>
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		<title>By: notadave</title>
		<link>http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/#comment-56550</link>
		<dc:creator>notadave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/#comment-56550</guid>
		<description>Jack, in reality KD may not have any more standing than any other blog, but they explicitly pitch themselves as an objective conduit to city officials, promising that city officials will read the statement posted on their site.  Assuming they are breaking any truth in advertising laws (I like giving people the benefit of the doubt) then they must have some kind of arrangement with city officials to indeed read the statements. That makes them quasi official, not unlike the portals that have sprung up where you can pay your taxes or traffic fines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack, in reality KD may not have any more standing than any other blog, but they explicitly pitch themselves as an objective conduit to city officials, promising that city officials will read the statement posted on their site.  Assuming they are breaking any truth in advertising laws (I like giving people the benefit of the doubt) then they must have some kind of arrangement with city officials to indeed read the statements. That makes them quasi official, not unlike the portals that have sprung up where you can pay your taxes or traffic fines.</p>
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		<title>By: AlamedaNayTiff</title>
		<link>http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/#comment-56512</link>
		<dc:creator>AlamedaNayTiff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/#comment-56512</guid>
		<description>Kitchen Democracy Turns into Online Oligarchy
http://www.wheremostneeded.org/2007/07/kitchen-democra.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kitchen Democracy Turns into Online Oligarchy<br />
<a href="http://www.wheremostneeded.org/2007/07/kitchen-democra.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.wheremostneeded.org/2007/07/kitchen-democra.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jack Richard</title>
		<link>http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/#comment-56511</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/#comment-56511</guid>
		<description># 9

Oh, come on , notadave.  KD is no more quasi official than any other group of word dabblers who mostly hide behind their animosity.  Our quasi cc should regard kd or, not regard dk, at their own peril.

Plus it's way to slow and clumsy,  unlike dk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p># 9</p>
<p>Oh, come on , notadave.  KD is no more quasi official than any other group of word dabblers who mostly hide behind their animosity.  Our quasi cc should regard kd or, not regard dk, at their own peril.</p>
<p>Plus it&#8217;s way to slow and clumsy,  unlike dk.</p>
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		<title>By: AlamedaNayTiff</title>
		<link>http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/#comment-56510</link>
		<dc:creator>AlamedaNayTiff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/#comment-56510</guid>
		<description>East Bay Express article on KD
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/2007-07-11/news/click-here-for-democracy/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>East Bay Express article on KD<br />
<a href="http://www.eastbayexpress.com/2007-07-11/news/click-here-for-democracy/" rel="nofollow">http://www.eastbayexpress.com/2007-07-11/news/click-here-for-democracy/</a></p>
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		<title>By: notadave</title>
		<link>http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/#comment-56509</link>
		<dc:creator>notadave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/#comment-56509</guid>
		<description>Wow!  Kirwin hit a new low in insults!  Have you been taking classes at the David Howard charm and ballet school?

Slight difference between Lauren's Blog and KD. KD promotes itself as a quasi official connection with local government. They state that they "connect local citizens with city hall"  They promise that "elected officials read what is posted on the site"  It is absolutely imperative that they be as objective as possible.  If you read Lauren's about section, she is very upfront about her beliefs and why she launched the blog.

Oh, and that noisy minority that seeks to monopolize discussion?  That would be you Dave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow!  Kirwin hit a new low in insults!  Have you been taking classes at the David Howard charm and ballet school?</p>
<p>Slight difference between Lauren&#8217;s Blog and KD. KD promotes itself as a quasi official connection with local government. They state that they &#8220;connect local citizens with city hall&#8221;  They promise that &#8220;elected officials read what is posted on the site&#8221;  It is absolutely imperative that they be as objective as possible.  If you read Lauren&#8217;s about section, she is very upfront about her beliefs and why she launched the blog.</p>
<p>Oh, and that noisy minority that seeks to monopolize discussion?  That would be you Dave.</p>
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		<title>By: Roberto</title>
		<link>http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/#comment-56506</link>
		<dc:creator>Roberto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/#comment-56506</guid>
		<description>Delusional Kirwin on tap again folks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Delusional Kirwin on tap again folks!</p>
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		<title>By: kate quick</title>
		<link>http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/#comment-56505</link>
		<dc:creator>kate quick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 13:33:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laurendo.wordpress.com/2007/10/29/dont-be-shocked-by-the-tone-of-my-voice/#comment-56505</guid>
		<description>When approached for my opinion about KD, I was careful to tell them that the LWV would never endorse content, but we did appreciate other's efforts to provide 'civil discourse" forums for people to issue their opinions.  I also opined to Mr. Vogel on the format/nature of their "question" which I felt was not neutrally framed.  Of course, all that was quoted was that I thought what they were doing was wonderful.  It's the concept of using the net for civil dialogue that is generally a good thing; not the specific methodology they employ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When approached for my opinion about KD, I was careful to tell them that the LWV would never endorse content, but we did appreciate other&#8217;s efforts to provide &#8216;civil discourse&#8221; forums for people to issue their opinions.  I also opined to Mr. Vogel on the format/nature of their &#8220;question&#8221; which I felt was not neutrally framed.  Of course, all that was quoted was that I thought what they were doing was wonderful.  It&#8217;s the concept of using the net for civil dialogue that is generally a good thing; not the specific methodology they employ.</p>
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