I’ve been thinking a lot about the Kitchen Democracy website and its recent foray into Alameda politics. While the tenents tenets (as corrected by the spelling police) are something that I can totally get behind and the reasoning why the founders started it definitely resonate with me, there is something that doesn’t sit well with me about the format itself. What has helped me not entirely dismiss the whole Kitchen Democracy thing is the vouching of Robert Vogel from an Alamedan whose opinion I respect. But with that said, I haven’t yet “participated” on KD yet because there is still something that just feels a little wonky about it.
I believe one of the things that makes me uncomfortable with the format is something that was briefly touched on by notadave. KD has no vehicle for dialogue, once you’ve stated your “position,” that’s pretty much it for your public participation process, while that works for city council public comment, it doesn’t necessarily work for fostering a give and take of thoughts and ideas. If someone makes a “statement” from a place of sounding like an authority figure, but in actuality their information is incorrect or their logic is faulty, how is a casual participant in their local democracy supposed to wade through endless statements from some named folk but the majority of anonymous participants and decide what is relevant and what is not?
Robert V. protestations that no matter how KD debut into Alameda politics was framed that there would always be a perception of bias. However, I think that the criticism of the Alameda question about Alameda Point is not solely about bias, although I also think there is a possible problem there as well, but more of the awkwardness in the phrasing of the question. There are many ways to get input about the Alameda Point issue, but limiting the “answer” to “yes,” “no,” “neutral,” and “maybe” stifles the discussion to severly limited points of view.
While the question is one that could be a valuable discussion point, it should have been more nuanced as to what aspect should be left entirely in the hands of Alameda residents. The “Alameda residents and politicians” is also a point that should be further clarified and is open to much debate, after all how is an “Alameda politician” defined? If we are just talking about our local governing body: the City Council, then the answer could have been ended at “Alameda residents” as the only way to sit on our local governing body would be to first be a resident and then elected. If we talk about “Alameda politicians” are we talking about politicians that Alameda voters vote to elect and then that opens it up to the county, state, and national level.
The term “development plans” is very vague as well, which part of the “development plans” are we talking about. The “development” process is a complex and complicated one and so the question, as broad and as vague as it is is open to a number of different interpretations in which “yes,” “no,” “neutral,” and “maybe” could be the answer given by any one person.
Here’s the thing, I think KD would have been more successful if there had been a critical mass of Alameda subscribers on their website chomping at the bit to open an Alameda forum. Maybe they could have created the first question as: “Should there be a Kitchen Democracy forum about Alameda?” If that magical number of 50 subscribers sign up and say resoundingly, “yes” then you have a mechanism in which the full control of the content (according to Robert V.) takes over and Kitchen Democracy itself doesn’t need to step in to pose the first oddly written and contextualized question. Maybe rather than just trying to call up the League of Women Voters in Alameda for a quickie quote for a press release, KD should have solicited input on what a good starting question would be for the City of Alameda. And if KD was insistent on touching on the Alameda Point issue, than the League would have been a much more balanced group than Action Alameda to consult. Or consult both prior to launching, what was the rush for KD if they wanted to come up with a well crafted, well thought out question that would resonate with Alameda residents?
To digress a bit and speaking of Press Releases, so I noticed this morning that Alameda Daily News has posted as a part of the Monday, October 29, 2007 news, a press release e-mailed out about Julia Park Tracey. Here’s the odd thing, in my email it said “Embargoed until Nov. 1.” Now one would think that a venerable newsman like Don Roberts would understand what a press embargo is, but apparently not.
But back to KD, here’s the thing that I find fascinating, apparently someone at KD (or that really likes KD) wants KD to work out in Alameda, so much so that s/he has decided to take out some very targeted google ads directing folks to the KD site on Alameda. I discovered the ads when I was searching for the Alameda Journal, sometimes the links don’t work from the RSS search so I have to do a manual google search.
So I thought to myself, “Self, do you think this is the case for other news outlets as well?” The answer is, “yes” for the Alameda Times Star:
Also “yes” for the Alameda Sun, but a fat “no” for the Alameda Daily News, no screen caps, you’ll have to take my word for it. So I tried some other search terms, “Alameda Issues” hit:
But not “Alameda” by itself:
I then wondered if the same kind of direct marketing was also in place for Berkeley, a big “no” on an advertisement for the “Berkeley Daily Planet” and “no” on advertising on “Berkeley issues.”
So if the pay per clicks funding is coming from KD one (and by “one” I mean, me) wonders why they are pushing so hard to break into the Alameda market. And if it is not coming from KD then one (and by “one”…etc….) wonders why that elusive someone is pushing so hard for Alamedans to use KD as their political weapon of choice.




tenants, tenets, tenents and…it all gets so damned confusing!
Comment by Jack Richard — October 29, 2007 @ 8:47 am
It is on the Google for Alameda Sun as well, but not Alameda Magazine. Would love to know who placed the ads. Tried Oakland Tribune, Hayward Daily Review, East Bay Express– nothing.
Comment by Kevis Brownson — October 29, 2007 @ 11:43 am
*(as corrected by the spelling police)*
I’m shocked by the tone of your voice. Besides, I got caught by the same police in the, “Lottery in June…”, so what gooses the gander should goose the goose.
Comment by Jack Richard — October 29, 2007 @ 12:17 pm
Kitchen Democracy placed the ads through Google’s standard Ad Works service.
When subscribing to that service, the subscriber does not have precise control over when the ad will appear. So, the randomness you see in the appearance of the ad is due to Google’s internal algorithm for displaying the ad -it is beyond Kitchen Democracy’s control.
Again, our only interest is to promote civic discourse – and we invite Alamedans to place their issues on our website.
Check out the Alameda suggestion box – Alameda’s next issue is already there.
Sincerely,
Robert Vogel
Kitchen Democracy
Comment by Robert Vogel — October 29, 2007 @ 3:34 pm
Frankly, who cares what 14 people who live somewhere with an Internet connection think about Alameda Point?
This survey is much more interesting and relevant:
http://quibblo.com/quiz/57i6kA/For-Hannah-Montana-Watchers
Comment by Alameda NayTiff — October 29, 2007 @ 6:10 pm
“Here’s the thing, I think KD would have been more successful if there had been a critical mass of Alameda subscribers on their website chomping at the bit to open an Alameda forum” -Laughable – ‘Who asked for you & your blog? What critical mass in Alameda requested a pro-developer, high density supporting, bull-shit flinging voice to raised in Alameda?
“KD has no vehicle for dialogue, once you’ve stated your “position,” that’s pretty much it for your public participation process, while that works for city council public comment, it doesn’t necessarily work for fostering a give and take of thoughts and ideas” – Sad to realize you think your little blog is more important than CC. Why shouldn’t CC be required to enable citizens to explain their view then later correct CC when they make critical errors on the dais? (Like misrepresenting to the City how much they City is intending to spend Alameda Landing). CC intentionally sets up many large items together to shut down public input by combining many things into one item – why is that OK? Seems to me making clarifications and furthering one’s point is more important during more important communications – and Lauren your opinion page isn’t on the same map as how our City spends our money, or how our City communicates in public.
As for bias – Don’t even get me started – your’s is an extremely biased site.
To openly admit that your perception of a possibility of bias (the wording of a question on KD) will determine your behavior clearly exemplifies your prejudices, and by “publishing” your prejudice you are trying to affect (infect) others as well.
Comment by David Kirwin — October 30, 2007 @ 6:23 am
When approached for my opinion about KD, I was careful to tell them that the LWV would never endorse content, but we did appreciate other’s efforts to provide ‘civil discourse” forums for people to issue their opinions. I also opined to Mr. Vogel on the format/nature of their “question” which I felt was not neutrally framed. Of course, all that was quoted was that I thought what they were doing was wonderful. It’s the concept of using the net for civil dialogue that is generally a good thing; not the specific methodology they employ.
Comment by kate quick — October 30, 2007 @ 6:33 am
Delusional Kirwin on tap again folks!
Comment by Roberto — October 30, 2007 @ 7:25 am
Wow! Kirwin hit a new low in insults! Have you been taking classes at the David Howard charm and ballet school?
Slight difference between Lauren’s Blog and KD. KD promotes itself as a quasi official connection with local government. They state that they “connect local citizens with city hall” They promise that “elected officials read what is posted on the site” It is absolutely imperative that they be as objective as possible. If you read Lauren’s about section, she is very upfront about her beliefs and why she launched the blog.
Oh, and that noisy minority that seeks to monopolize discussion? That would be you Dave.
Comment by notadave — October 30, 2007 @ 7:41 am
East Bay Express article on KD
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/2007-07-11/news/click-here-for-democracy/
Comment by AlamedaNayTiff — October 30, 2007 @ 8:46 am
# 9
Oh, come on , notadave. KD is no more quasi official than any other group of word dabblers who mostly hide behind their animosity. Our quasi cc should regard kd or, not regard dk, at their own peril.
Plus it’s way to slow and clumsy, unlike dk.
Comment by Jack Richard — October 30, 2007 @ 8:55 am
Kitchen Democracy Turns into Online Oligarchy
http://www.wheremostneeded.org/2007/07/kitchen-democra.html
Comment by AlamedaNayTiff — October 30, 2007 @ 9:15 am
Jack, in reality KD may not have any more standing than any other blog, but they explicitly pitch themselves as an objective conduit to city officials, promising that city officials will read the statement posted on their site. Assuming they are breaking any truth in advertising laws (I like giving people the benefit of the doubt) then they must have some kind of arrangement with city officials to indeed read the statements. That makes them quasi official, not unlike the portals that have sprung up where you can pay your taxes or traffic fines.
Comment by notadave — October 30, 2007 @ 3:15 pm
I actually read about KD awhile back. I’m not 100% sold on the idea, but I do agree with their basic premise, which is that discussions and the ability to take part in city politics is difficult.
Many of the meetings happen in the middle of weekdays, meaning only retirees and stay at home moms can likely attend. Either that or they’re early in the evening- way before many of us get off work. So from that perspective, I agree.
In regards to the latest-greatest plans for Alameda Point, well the biggest issue in regards to affordability will solve itself sooner or later. This just in the paper today. Enjoy the read:
“The Mercury News. “Alameda Realtor David Gunderman said he’s seen home prices and sales soften. In general, he said, the softening market is affecting those buying homes for the first time. The reason is that lenders have tightened their lending standards.”
“‘Those people (buyers) were taking a risk, and the lender was allowing them to do so,’ he said. ‘Those people are no longer in the market, which is good, responsible lending. It got irresponsible for a while there and that’s why we’re feeling the pinch right now. It’s a correction, a necessary correction.’”
“Broker Michael Studebaker said…Harbor Bay Isle home sales were suffering.”
Comment by edvard — October 30, 2007 @ 4:14 pm
“Robert Vogel remembers going to Berkeley City Council meetings and waiting hours to speak, getting heckled, and feeling intimidated. He couldn’t miss that less. “They are really unpleasant affairs,” says Vogel, who last stepped foot inside City Hall in January.”
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/2007-07-11/news/click-here-for-democracy/
Yes, true democracy is messy and people are not always civil — nor are they required to be. The results of public policy decisions are quite often uncivil and can cause misery and woe to many.
Democracy is not about posting opinions on a webpage. Freedom of speech is part of it, but so is working together with others to achieve a common goal. Democracy isn’t one thing, but a constellation of rights and freedoms. Kitchen Democracy has as much to do with democracy as it does kitchens.
Comment by Alameda NayTiff — October 30, 2007 @ 4:33 pm
Re # 4 and 13
“Should the charter be amended to exempt Alameda Point from the restrictions of article 26 (measure A)?”
That’s the suggested new issue in Alameda on KD. Hmm, why would anyone think ten (if that many) people commenting in a virtual kitchen (unless they’re part of the cabinet) give a hoot about MA? I mean it’s only been the subject of rancorous discussions in every opinion outlet in every venue in Alameda since it was passed thirty some years ago.
But that’s not the question. The question is, why would a city official give a hoot what the ten respondents opine just because their hoot’s in KD? Wow, if it were discussed in KD and KD has an “arrangement” (nefarious?) with all the king’s (and queen’s) (wo)men and…and others, I’m sure they would pass edict after edict reflecting the will of someone.
I’m just not getting why anyone thinks KD’s anything different than…this blog, for instance.
Plus, it’s way too slow and clumsy for the lightening quick ether theater.
Comment by Jack Richard — October 30, 2007 @ 4:53 pm