Blogging Bayport Alameda

October 17, 2007

Someone’s in the Kitchen with Democracy

Filed under: Alameda, Alameda Neighbors, Alameda Point, Public Resources — Lauren Do @ 7:15 am

I know I haven’t commented on lately on items from Alameda Daily News lately, but news that “Kitchen Democracy” (KD)  will be gracing Alameda’s shores is a compelling topic.   Haven’t heard of KD?  Well, let them tell you about themselves, from ADN:

Alameda Point Forum on Kitchen Democracy Web Site

Following are highlights from a press release from KitchenDemocracy.org :

The politically neutral web site forum, KitchenDemocracy.org, has announced its expansion into Alameda with a forum on the question: “Should development plans for Alameda Point be decided exclusively by Alameda residents and politicians?”. Residents and elected officials are invited to learn about and provide feedback on this controversial issue by going to http://www.KitchenDemocracy.Org/85 .

Robert Vogel, CEO and co-founder of Kitchen Democracy stated, “Alameda is an ideal town for Kitchen Democracy because while the community has a diverse population of insightful residents, unfortunately many of these residents aren’t able to attend city hall meetings to learn about issues and express their opinions”. Robert emphasized that, “Kitchen Democracy is intended to augment (not replace) the traditional ways that residents and elected officials interact, and that’s how Kitchen Democracy increases and diversifies civic engagement. Over the past 18 months, residents and elected officials in Oakland, Berkeley and Kensington have been using Kitchen Democracy as one of many ways to openly discuss issues concerning their communities”. Robert also stressed that his organization is politically neutral, doesn’t take a position on any issues, and strives to maintain a civil forum.

In response to Kitchen Democracy’s announcement, Kate Quick, the president of the League of Women Voters of Alameda, stated, “We can’t endorse any content, but your statement of the aims of your Kitchen Democracy Project to forward the cause of non-partisan civil discourse and discussion are certainly in keeping with the principles of the League of Women Voters. It is a welcome addition to outlets for people to contribute to the dialogue and get in touch with other’s thoughts.”

David Howard, Co-Chair of Action Alameda said: “The tenor of debate on important topics in Alameda has been lowered by forums in which participants are subject to anonymous mudslinging and insults. I know there are many people in Alameda who refrain from participating in discussions on important issues, such as the decision process for Alameda Point, for fear of being unfairly labeled with some epithet. I believe the use of KitchenDemocracy.org in Alameda can reverse this problem.”

Development at Alameda Point is a huge issue for the town, and its potential impact on the region makes the decision process for this development especially controversial. To read what others think about this issue and state your position in a civil forum, go to http://www.KitchenDemocracy.Org/85 .

Kitchen Democracy is a 501c(3) non-profit corporation whose mission is to strengthen democratic communities and thereby improve their quality of life. The organization is politically neutral, and takes no position on issues. To learn more about this organization, establish a Kitchen Democracy community, or launch an issue on the web site, go to http://www.KitchenDemocracy.Org .

Sounds good, no?  I always appreciate more public participation than less and the internet is certainly the perfect medium for busy folks who cannot make it out to meetings.  So I went to the KD website to check out what the Alameda portion of the site and there is only one ”Issue” for Alameda, as mentioned above, but here is it again:

Should development plans for Alameda Point be decided exclusively by Alameda residents and politicians?

Really?   That’s an “issue”?  Also, I have to say that as of 6:30 am this morning there are 5 “statements”, statements, as I understand it are a way for people to vote yea or nay or neutral and then write a comment about why they voted that way.  Like a comment.  Only with a radio button.  But as of 6:30 am of the 5 statements, only two are from “registered Alameda voters.”  Of course everything on KD is on the honor system, so you could say you are from Alameda, but not really be from Alameda.  Also, the 3 out of 5 not from Alameda comments sort of defeats the question before it really gets off the ground, if there was any ground for it to get off of to start with.

I have to say I really enjoy the comment from Action Alameda that posits that somehow KD will reverse the trend of “anonymous mudslinging and insults” on the other forums.  (Et tu ADN?)  Interestingly enough, KD doesn’t require you to be “someone” either, from an article in the East Bay Express about KD:

…At least one user, Karen MacLeod, publicly fretted that anonymous outsiders might have inflated the apparent support for the Wright’s Garage proposal. “It is absolutely impossible that 98 people living close to this project are in favor of it,” she wrote amid the debate. “No adequate parking — come on! I have experienced this before with Kitchen Democracy. People can vote more than once and so can the people trying to ruin our neighborhood, even if they do not live in our city! I could live in San Jose and vote. Using this information is an irresponsible way of representing your constituents. And it is happening too often.” …

So even though anonymous comments are technically allowed, it tells me that there is a strong hand that will be “moderating” statements, but who it is and how they do it not known.   Where does the line get drawn between moderating statements that are considered ”mudslinging” and a statement that the moderator simply does not agree with politically?  

But if people find it useful, I say, good luck to KD in Alameda.   I just don’t know if that particular ”issue” is going to have much traction with Alameda residents, but hey that’s just one opinion from the peanut gallery.

More from the EBX on KD, taken with a grain of salt as all reports from all newspapers are, right?

Robert Vogel remembers going to Berkeley City Council meetings and waiting hours to speak, getting heckled, and feeling intimidated. He couldn’t miss that less. “They are really unpleasant affairs,” says Vogel, who last stepped foot inside City Hall in January.

Yet despite his physical absence, the retired software executive is among Berkeley’s most active political residents. Vogel says he logs a hundred hours every week to maintain and promote KitchenDemocracy.org, a nonprofit Web site he and his wife, Simona Carini, launched in March 2006. They envisioned it as a virtual town hall where citizens and elected officials could suggest, vote for, and comment on local issues outside the three-ring circus of Berkeley public meetings.

Their dedication appears to have paid off. Besides attracting more than two thousand registered users by Vogel’s count, Kitchen Democracy has become increasingly influential in local politics — too influential, some say.

…many city officials have embraced the site. In the sixteen months since the first Kitchen Democrat signed up, locals have debated and “voted” on 21 Berkeley-related issues, one-third of which were authored by city leaders. Mayor Tom Bates, for instance, polled the KDers on his Public Commons for Everyone Initiative, and presented the vote tally and comments at a council meeting. Cisco DeVries, the mayor’s chief of staff, says the site has been especially helpful in soliciting comments on controversial issues: “Politics and policy in Berkeley is a full-contact sport, and that dissuades a lot of people from getting involved. I have seen people hissed and hollered at for making comments at a public meeting.”

The site also has its critics on the council. Max Anderson says he prefers direct contact with constituents. “I don’t use it that much, because I already have pretty good avenues of communication,” he says. “And I think that I get a broader sampling than I would with the limited reach of Kitchen Democracy.”

Councilman Kriss Worthington, whose South Berkeley district includes the university, is less generous. He argues that the “limited reach” is a fatal flaw. “There was a preselecting bias with the issues when it started, and it was pretty much focused on a particular neighborhood, which votes for the losing candidates in citywide elections pretty much every time,” he says.

Kitchen Democracy’s “moderate, pro-landlord” bias is unfair to Berkeley’s large racial-minority student population, Worthington says. He note, for instance, that while Berkeley residents have consistently voted against changing the city’s rent-control laws, 85 percent of KD users in an ongoing poll favored reforming those laws.

Leaders have given the concerns of Kitchen Democracy users too much weight in recent public debates. The most egregious example, he says, involved the Wright’s Garage project — developer John Gordon wants to turn the large former auto-repair shop near Ashby and College avenues into a big restaurant, among other things (see “The Wright Stuff,” Water Cooler, 6/20).

The project at first seemed doomed since it exceeded Elmwood’s quotas on full-service restaurants, and since many neighbors and local merchants were opposed. But the quotas are flexible if a project garners significant neighborhood support. Members of the city’s Zoning Adjustments Board found that support on Kitchen Democracy, where 80 percent of 217 voters favored Gordon’s project in an online poll.

The zoning board’s approval was immediately appealed to the city council, where Wozniak felt compelled to remove himself from the debate and vote because he had explicitly supported the Wright’s project on Kitchen Democracy.

For his part, Worthington says he has “serious legal concerns” about the zoning board’s use of the poll. “Given that that poll was people voting in reaction to an explicit advocacy agenda by a councilmember who is forced to be recused, how can the results of that poll be used as an accurate barometer of the opinion?” he asked his colleagues at a June 26 council meeting.

Anonymity is another issue. Roughly one-third of Kitchen Democracy commentators withhold their names from postings. Some do so to avoid backlash — on the rent-control issue, for example, one person outed wealthy friends who “have held their Berkeley ‘pied-à-terre’ for casual and recreational use while having true residency elsewhere.” Another wrote, “I have kept my name off because I do not want to expose myself to harassment by the ideologues at the Rent Board.”

To register, Kitchen Democracy users must provide a name, home address, and e-mail address. While Vogel admits he has no practical way to ensure that a registered address truly belongs to the user, he doesn’t believe trying to influence the vote tally would be worth the trouble. DeVries concurs — what he and the mayor ask themselves, he says, is, “Is this a good comment? In this sense, it doesn’t much matter whether it’s a real person or not.”

A critique of KD from a Berekely resident from the Berekely Daily Planet, with similar criticisms as Berkeley Councilmember Kriss Worthington.  The irony of the whole KD in Alameda thing is that the only issue on their site for Alameda is regarding whether development plans for Alameda Point should be exclusively decided by Alameda folks only, but KD itself the vehicle for this new forum is an “outsider,” if the “yeas” get their way, then a forum like KD wouldn’t be able to have an impact on Alameda politics the way that they have had on Berkeley politics.

Edited to add: a few more critiques on KD, both positive and negative and neutral.

Kitchen Democracy turns into Online Oligarchy

Commentary: Kitchen Democracy in the Gourmet Ghetto

Board Debates Propriety of Using Web Poll as Measure of Public Support

A Misleading Question from Kitchen Democracy

17 Comments »

  1. What a lame question to ask.

    Comment by notadave — October 17, 2007 @ 8:18 am

  2. # 1

    If you’re referring to the KD question about Alameda Point, why is it lame? If you’re referring to the general question of why any Alameda politician would vote in regard to the results of the KD poll, I agree, it’s lame.

    Comment by Jack Richard — October 17, 2007 @ 8:58 am

  3. I did comment to Mr. Vogel when he revealed “the question” that I thought it was not couched in such a way as to provoke thoughtful comments, but adversarial ones. But, if his stated aim is to provide a neutral, non-partisan forum for discussion of topics with many points of view, he should give it a try. If it doesn’t work, so what: it didn’t work. Any kind of “polling” can be skewed by the way the question is asked, or the preponderance of respondents from one group or another as a strategy to “throw” the result. It’s the dialogue that is important, especially if it is civil. At least the subject is being talked about. Most politicans weigh input intelligently, but even in the public forum, I’ve seen them thrown by one-sided yelling by a minority of really passionate people.

    Comment by Kate Quick — October 17, 2007 @ 9:31 am

  4. It is lame because involving outside interests in the development of Alameda Point is a given - last I checked Suncal was from out of town

    Comment by notadave — October 17, 2007 @ 11:51 am

  5. Hello -

    Thanks for giving Kitchen Democracy a try in Alameda.

    Simona and I really want Kitchen Democracy Alameda to be for Alamedans; we look forward to hearing from you on the website.

    One thing which may not be clear is that any Alamedan can suggest any Alameda issue; Simona and I put ‘Alameda Point Development’ on the website just to get the community started.

    We hope you take this as an opportunity to propose, select and discuss Alameda issues knowing that the website is run by a ‘Neutral’ party - Simona and I are only interested in promoting civic participation.

    Please feel free to ask us questions on this blog - or on our blog at http://blog.kitchendemocracy.org/
    - or in email to us at
    info@kitchendemocracy.org.

    Sincerely,
    Robert Vogel
    Kitchen Democracy

    Comment by Robert Vogel — October 18, 2007 @ 10:48 am

  6. I actually worked with Robert Vogel in 2004 on a political project he had going to help get Bush booted out of office. It was a really well-run grassroots project. I think that Vogel’s heart is in the right place — but that this issue is FRAMED in a non-neutral way. If anybody here has read George Lakoff’s book “Don’t Think of an Elephant,” they’ll know what I’m talking about — it’s very easy to take an issue, and use certain language to frame it in such a way that it gives one side an advantage…. a simple case is “Are you for or against tax relief” — the mere framing of taxes as being something that you need relief from (as opposed to, say, an investment in society or the common good) has already put the person who is trying to answer the question into a defensive position. The question for Alameda is exactly such a case — it is, I believe, framed in a non-neutral way.

    Comment by Dan W. — October 19, 2007 @ 9:36 am

  7. Re # 6

    “It was a really well-run grassroots project.”

    Since Bush is still in office, the above statement sounds a bit defensive.

    Comment by Jack Richard — October 19, 2007 @ 11:08 am

  8. When I saw David Howard at the city council meeting singing the praises of Kitchen Democracy as a neutral site for people to discuss issue’s I must admit I have serious doubts about it being “fair and balanced”.

    I will have to look at it very carefully. John P.

    Comment by john piziali — October 19, 2007 @ 12:57 pm

  9. Barbara Kerr likes to gripe about “people from Berkeley”, like Eve Bach from Arc Ecology, coming to Alameda and poking their noses into OUR business. In that context I think it’s ironic to have David Howard touting this group as neutral.

    I agree with Dan’s very well made point about the question they posted on the Alameda site not being neutral by virtue of the framing, a la Lakoff’s thesis.

    I’ll give benefit of the doubt to Robert Vogel and take one from Kerr’s play book and say that he doesn’t seem up to speed on the issues here in our little burg, or he might have been better aware of why the question doesn’t read as entirely neutral.

    One wonders if Howard had a hand in suggesting the question.

    Comment by Mark I — October 19, 2007 @ 2:23 pm

  10. I’m glad that some of you are willing to give Kitchen Democracy a try.

    One thing Simona and I have learned over the past 18 months is that no matter how carefully you try to frame an issue in a neutral way, there are _always_ some people who perceive it to be non-neutral.

    So, please understand that our ultimate goal is not to suggest issues for Alamedans to discuss. Rather, it is for Alamedans to suggest issues for Alamedans to discuss. The Alameda pages of Kitchen Democracy are yours, and are completely under your control.

    If you don’t think that ‘Alameda Point Development’ is phrased in a neutral way, then please accept my apologies - and my invitation to put your version of that issue - or any other Alameda issue - in the Alameda suggestion box.

    Thanks again for looking at Kitchen Democracy as a potential tool to promote civic discourse in Alameda. That is our only objective.

    Sincerely,
    Robert Vogel
    Kitchen Democracy

    Comment by Robert Vogel — October 20, 2007 @ 11:03 am

  11. Post #10 Mr. Vogel
    Thanks for your comments, I will try your site. John P.

    Comment by john piziali — October 20, 2007 @ 11:10 am

  12. Robert,

    If I post on the K.D. site it will be as neutral, though in reality I am not completely indifferent, but I have no more honest way to answer the question.

    I don’t want Alamedans to be forced to decide about the Point in a vacuum “davoid” (that’s an inside joke) of any outside in put or expertise. On the other hand, I think every municipality or legal entity would like to have the final say over what they perceive as their own domain. Democracy is about self governance after all, but states aren’t entirely free to govern themselves without regard to the nation, and Alameda, however autonomous, is also part of a greater region.

    If you see the difficulty I have with the question, perhaps you better understand why it seems overly simplistic, or otherwise flawed, even skewed.

    But why be coy? You know exactly what contact you had with Mr. Howard prior to formulating the question you posted. At our council meeting Mr. Howard posed as having just recently received an impromptu call from you to obtain a quote for a press release. We might be led to believe you had never heard of each other before that moment. I don’t wish to cast dispersions about people’s freedom of association, but this speaks to motive on Mr. Howard’s part.

    Howard is anything but neutral and if it was clear he had led this horse to water that would tend to taint people’s ability to see K.D. as neutral.

    Mr. Howard seems to pose a lot and many of us are wary not just of his motives but his practices. I’d be more explicit, but I might find myself being sued.

    Comment by Mark I — October 20, 2007 @ 12:01 pm

  13. Mark -

    You are absolutely right when you say that I am not up to speed on Alameda issues. You are also correct when you say that Mr. Howard helped us formulate the question.

    After receiving input from him and others, we made our best shot at framing this issue in a neutral way. We authored this first Alameda issue - not Mr. Howard or anyone else - knowing it would not be perceived as neutral by some.

    To start Kitchen Democracy in a new community, someone has to introduce the first issue. Who shall it be? If an Alamedan introduces it, we know from our Berkeley experience that Kitchen Democracy will forever be associated with the political bias of that person.

    So, we decided to go ahead and introduce it ourselves - an independent party outside of Alameda politics - knowing that it would be perceived as biased by some.

    We hope that those who perceive this as biased will
    a) respond by explaining their perception of bias on the website and elsewhere, and
    b) look at the website as a whole, not just the ‘Alameda Point Development’ issue.

    Check out our ‘Suggestion Box’. Once a user community reaches a certain size (50 users), users take full control of the content of all issues on Kitchen Democracy. There is no central editor who controls the political content of the website. All decisions to put an issue on Kitchen Democracy (or not) are made democratically by the community, via the Suggestion Box.

    We are not yet at 50 Alamedans (we have 40). Hopefully we will get another 10, at which point all suggested Alameda issues will be rated by Alameda users; only those rated Actionable, Balanced, Clear and Important will be opened for public comment.

    Our only goal is to promote civic discourse in Alameda and elsewhere. I hope you give this a try. Don’t hesitate to suggest improvements here or in private to me.

    Sincerely,
    Robert Vogel
    Kitchen Democracy
    robert@kitchendemocracy.org

    Comment by Robert Vogel — October 20, 2007 @ 11:11 pm

  14. I have a question for Jack Richards and Dave Kirwin about their responses to the current topic. Since KD doesn’t appear to allow for dialogue, I’d like to ask it here.

    You were both emphatic that development decisions about Alameda Point should be made exclusively by Alameda residents.

    The developer will be making a huge decision regarding AP by deciding to either spend or not spend money on the development. I would argue that they have the largest stake in the decision making process. Since you want to limit decision makers to only Alameda residents, are you saying the developer, since they aren’t Alameda residents have no voice in the decision making?

    Comment by notadave — October 24, 2007 @ 2:00 pm

  15. Re # 14

    Mr. notadaves.

    I, of course, cannot speak for Mr. Kirwin nor do I want to, but my interpretation of the topic question and my comment in the KD forum represents my belief that overall decision processes made in developing the Point should be able to be traced back to the citizens of Alameda. Not to voters outside this city. To me, that doesn’t mean the actual day to day activities involved in the process should be voted on by the citizens. I’ve stated elsewhere that it’s my belief that those we have elected to run city government must be held responsible through the ballot box for the decisions they make and the staff they guide in representing the voting citizens of this city.

    This does not mean that established law (MA) can be disregarded or over-ruled without the active voting participation of the City’s citizens.

    Notice also I gave back the “s” I don’t need or want.

    Comment by Jack Richard — October 24, 2007 @ 3:05 pm

  16. Thanks for the clarification, that helps, and thanks for returning the s I apologize. I thought you were Keith Richards younger brother.

    Comment by notadave — October 24, 2007 @ 5:13 pm

  17. Vogel, KD is already ‘tainted’ by getting the likes on Howard involved. If there was ever an impartial soul in Alameda, clearly he is not!

    Good luck.

    Comment by Roberto — October 24, 2007 @ 5:20 pm

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