Blogging Bayport Alameda

July 16, 2007

Plenty of Nothing

Filed under: Alameda, City Council, Development, Measure A — Lauren Do @ 6:30 am

Yes, it was all for naught.

What I am referring to? The 6 hours worth of the Measure A Ad Hoc Subcommittee meeting.

What was the consensus at the end of the 6 hours…that the group would never come to a consensus. Perhaps this was an exercise that was doomed to fail from the start. But the optimist in me really hopes that people could put aside their differences and try to meet somewhere in the middle. I even had typed out notes trying to capture the meeting as it went on, but I am so disappointed by the outcome that I can’t even bear to post it. With semantics issues kicking off the meeting it slowly got worse. Evidently “panel” is not a good term, but “presenter” is and a few members (coughappellantscough) couldn’t get past the issue that “panel” was used. The meeting was rife with raised voices and heckling from a few members of the audience which made the whole experience uncomfortable and –for me — wholly disrespectful.

The decision at the end of this meeting was to go back to the City Council for guidance and City staff and the Facilitator would write up a report — as neutral as possible — to present to the Council. The Planning Board members and the Appellant group members will have a change to turn in their own comments as well.

My reflection on this process having viewed the entire 3 hours of the first one on tape and then sitting through the second one was that the Planning Board members really tried to honor the process. To reach consensus by giving a little and compromising a little. I really felt as though the Appellant group went into these meetings with a set idea and when presented with a point where they would have to give a little, they dug in their heels and refused to move forward until they got what they wanted.

They came in wanting to divvy up choosing the speakers and at one point they pretty much had the Planning Board members convinced due to the discussion prior to that there was no way that — even though they had all agreed to at the first meeting to reach consensus on the speakers first — no way that they would ever reach consensus. In fact, rather than trying to come to consensus first, Barbara Kerr announced that she would not participate in that process if speakers living outside Alameda were considered. However, if they were to divvy up selecting speakers, then she didn’t care if speakers from outside Alameda were chosen. So, one of the first people to not “honor” the past agreements by even trying to go through the process previously discussed was not the Planning Board members as retold by Don Roberts, but Barbara K. who refused to be reasoned with on this issue. She was stuck on the “Eve Bachs” and the “Deena Belzers” on this list instead of focusing on the “John Kings” and “Anthony Itons” (Alameda resident by the way) of the group. The Planning Board members had nothing left to do but also concede and compromise on that issue.

They framed the discussion as “pro” and “anti,” disregarding the nuances that surround any issue, in order to further their cause to have each “side” pick speakers to represent a “pro” and “anti” side rather than choosing a topic first and selecting speakers who could speak to that subject matter.

At the end when the Planning Board finally realized that they had been giving and giving and receiving nothing but push back in return, they finally tried to present their own — very similar but more nuanced structure of how they thought the forum should be structured. But at the very end, even as the facilitator tried to explain to the group that the forum structure offered by Diane Coler-Dark and the alternate one from Anne Cook had more in common than different — a stone wall rose up. Diane C-D even went as far as saying, “I don’t care, I don’t care,” when David Early tried bring the group back to consensus by pointing out the similarities in the two forum structures. I’m relieved that the Planning Board members finally pushed back. Talk about a runaway train…the appellants were controlling each step of the process through sheer force of personality and the result if the Planning Board had not intervene would not have been a forum designed by consensus, but a forum designed by the appellant group and one that the PB members had just concede and compromised on each issue hoping that at some point they would see the same reciprocation, but none was to be had.

With that, here’s video of the first part, since people probably are not going to watch more than this, that’s all I’m posting. The rest are on Google Video, you can find them under my user name.

So you can either chose to believe the “spin” from Don Roberts and friends, or you can choose to believe my “differently biased” account, or you can say to hell with you all and watch all three hours yourself. I find in none too ironic that after talking about how terrible a facilitator David Early was for weeks and weeks on end, suddenly Don Roberts is a fan:

Despite valiant efforts by Alameda’s Planning Director’s hired facilitator David Early to bring the two sides together

Read into that what you want.

Let’s hope that the City Council will have some brilliant plan that will give Alamedans the Measure A Forum that a whole lot of people showed up to a very long City Council meeting to express that they wanted. And a Measure A forum that many Alamedans sent in names of speakers they wanted or thought would be informative to speak on the issue. At one point close to the end, even as optimistic as I was that it might come to a consensus, it was at a point that going back to the City Council for guidance seemed like the best idea. I just hope that the City Council members will not only take into consideration what the reports say, but maybe get the reflections of a few of the audience members.

54 Comments »

  1. Much as I like Lena Tam, this was a brain dead exercise to start with and doomed to fail given the personalities of the appellants.

    Comment by Roberto — July 16, 2007 @ 8:56 am

  2. A-pocalypse Now!

    Comment by Alameda NayTiff — July 16, 2007 @ 10:12 am

  3. If we can’t work out our differences on this issue here in Alameda, with all of the advantages we have here, what hope is there of resolving truly difficult issues in parts of the world where those advantages don’t exist? I think that Lena had it right by trying to bring the parties together, and I applaud her for showing leadership when it would have been much easier politically to punt.

    I would also point out that six hours may seem like a lot of time to spend working through problems, but it isn’t, really. I have been in negotiating sessions that started at 10 in the morning and went until 4 a.m. the following morning, and as frustrating as those sessions were at times, the parties did come to agreement eventually. Part of what needs to happen is for the parties to build trust, and that takes time. Perhaps ironically, trust can be built through sharing the same experiences, even when those experiences have negative aspects. I know this from my own experiences; at a certain point you develop an odd feeling of partnership with people that you don’t agree with because you both have been suffering through the same prolonged process, and you find the humor in that, and that is what opens you up to forming the basis for trust.

    I think it is way to early to give up, and giving up doesn’t mean that the issue is going to go away, it will simply morph into a different, and probably more divisive, form.

    Comment by Mike Rich — July 16, 2007 @ 10:34 am

  4. The appellants have had a chance to have their say. The city should start over and go with people who will cooperate and have the forum that they can have, and let the nay sayers scream and whine and make all their awful accusations.

    Keeping it as narrow as Alamedans only, to me ignores the real gist of what many people are trying to discuss, which in many ways is academic and not specific to all the realities on the ground in Alameda, but things which over all are relevant to the latter in the long run. We need to be able to ask a few what ifs?

    Sticking to Alamedans exclusively is awfully reminiscent of Bush sticking with Rummy and Condi, come hell or high water. It’s an obtuse stubbornness which to me is willfully ignorant, entrenched and selfish.

    If they are right, they ought to have the confidence that they can debunk the arguments of those with different views and welcome the opportunity, instead of being obstructionist.

    Comment by Mark — July 16, 2007 @ 10:37 am

  5. Whoever on the Council supported this concept should have their political heads examined. What did they expect would happen?

    Someone on the Council needs to have the political guts to put a proposal on the ballot. Perhaps a measure to exempt Alameda Point from certain aspects of Measure A and its offspring would be viable. Do any of the five have the courage to propose such a measure?

    Answering the above question leads to one conclusion: Put the measure on the ballot through petition… and who is prepared for the thug tactics likely to be used to harass signature gatherers?
    Alameda’s thin veneer of civility will rub off the day the first petitioner hits the street.

    Comment by Alameda NayTiff — July 16, 2007 @ 11:29 am

  6. Naytiff…

    well said.

    Comment by edvard — July 16, 2007 @ 11:31 am

  7. There is a good possibility that a group will gather enough signatures that an initiative will be placed on the February or November ballot. Unfortunately for those in the appellant camp, it will likely not be called the “Overturn Measure A” initiative. More likely it will be something along the lines of “Smart Growth at Alameda Point”, with bullet points about Historic Preservation, diverse housing for all economic levels, Traffic Reduction through Public Transportation, strong mix of retail-housing-commercial, etc. Something the casual voter would be in favor of as they read it for the first time in the voting booth.

    Ironically, it would be very interesting if this was the first local initiative on the ballot, and was given the designation “Measure A”. I would love to see the lawn sign that reads “Support Measure A – Vote No on Measure A.”

    Comment by Steve — July 16, 2007 @ 12:06 pm

  8. Steve,
    I couldn’t agree more. I think the little trick that gets played with this measure time and again is to make-believe there will be something done about it by making pie-in-the-sky dream plans that have absolutely no chance of ever passing. Then when it doesn’t pass, the attitude is: “see, we tried and it didn’t work.”

    Simply put, it is kind of counterproductive to beat arounf the bush in regards to a measure that makes development of any kind- both “good” and “bad” prohibitively expensive.

    I’ll even take back what I said about the home models on Bayport. Sure- they might be made out of plastic wood and have cheap-o plastic Kwikset door knobs, but for all the red tape the company that built them likely had to go through, I’d be curious to know how much of that cost was related to their initial planned development via city negotiations. For that matter- they might be a steal if getting something as mundane as a measure to be posted on a simple ballot is as complicated as it seems to be around here.

    Comment by edvard — July 16, 2007 @ 2:13 pm

  9. OK… every one who believed that the group of three would actually sit down and have a civil discussion with anyone who did not agree with them raise your hands. I don’t see any hands, oops there are a few of the council’s hands up. As far as I’m concerned Lena Tam made a big mistake when she suggested that the appellants should be on the Ad Hoc committee.

    This was our council telling the planning board that the council felt the planning board was baised and could not be trusted to even set a format for a discussion on measure A. So much for politicians.

    My guess is that one way or another someone will finally put together a petition as mentioned above and the voters of this city will vote in favor of some sort of adjustment to mes. A It will happen over the voices of the Apellants. John P.

    Comment by John Piziali — July 16, 2007 @ 4:52 pm

  10. I disagree that Lena made a mistake. Has anybody else asked her specifically what she had in mind? I did, and I just re-read Lena’s response, which I don’t want to share without express permission, but I would describe it as circumspect and taking all possibilities into account.

    If this solution had born some fruit, then great, Lena would be the wise sage. As it is, she allowed the appellants a fair chance to be cooperative or take enough rope to hang themselves. I think the latter has occurred, unless Mike Rich’s sensibility prevails with the appellants, but I don’t see signs of that.

    Mike made his post while I was composing #4. I might have modified
    my post if I had read what Mike posted first, but I think both points of view can stand side by side. But I don’t think it’s “way too early to give up”, the appellants have to be the ones to make some compromise, or admit that they really just want to gum up the works and are happy with “plenty of nothing”.

    Comment by Mark — July 16, 2007 @ 6:18 pm

  11. E.V.-

    It’s important to know how long homes which are selling have been held by the previous owner, because there is a difference between a typical or sale of inherited property, probate, or downsizing by long time owner, and somebody whose been here three years selling for any of a number of reasons.

    Comment by Mark — July 16, 2007 @ 6:23 pm

  12. oops. #11 was supposed to be posted under “Does Enchantment Pour out…” etc.

    Comment by Mark — July 16, 2007 @ 6:25 pm

  13. I am sorry, Lena, brought one side to the table because they complained…she should have appointed 3 for and 3 against…that is what is fair. The planning board didn’t state a position. The against side in changes to Measure A just concluded that the planning board were for doing away with measure A because they decided to discuss it. So she came up with this idea to make the objector’s part of the process with out the other side as also being a part of the process?

    As far as I am concerned anything Pat Bail or Barbara Kerr is for, I need to look close at because I seem to be a 100% the other way. Let them do my research for me…see how they vote and vote the opposite. In my view they both do a tremendous disservice to the community. (Long sleep or go away the slate).

    I also notice Don Roberts site is getting more and more limited…he won’t publish my emails any longer because I don’t include my phone number. I confronted him and he said he didn’t publish my email because I didn’t leave a phone number. No where on his site does he say you should include your phone #. He just didn’t like what I had to say, so much for a news site.

    Comment by Joel — July 16, 2007 @ 8:03 pm

  14. Edward,
    Bayport – cheap-o plastic Kwikset door knobs, where do you get that? I can assure you, that I don’t have any…cheap-o plastic Kwikset door knobs. Actually everything is very good quality in my home (from the appliances, dual thermostats for the separate floors, to the water circulars, to the rounded corners at each corner, to the high ceilings, to the dual pain windows (which you can wash from inside or out), to the walls that breath (and will not create mold), to the cable laden slab which they are built on to help withstand earthquakes, to the water saving toilets, to the … It may not be to your liking but it will probably last a lot longer than some of the older homes everyone it trying to preserve. I lived in older homes most of my life growing up and one new home…I would take the new home any day.

    My boss has a older home, spends a lot of weekends working on it, doors don’t fit or close, not insulated well, he has redone the showers, redone the kitchen…and still he is constantly complaining…all his free time goes into this house.

    Edward, you have an antique, you have antique insulation, windows, floors, electrical, plumbing, heating, and your worried about door knobs, which in my house are not plastic. They do seem to use Styrofoam for some of there molding but that stuff never breaks down…what will be here longer?

    Comment by Joel — July 16, 2007 @ 9:36 pm

  15. Joel,
    I worked selling architectural materials for a number of years.So I kind of have an insider’s view on these small details.

    Take one of those knobs apart. You might be a little surprised. The same goes for the flooring and cabinets.

    But to be fair, new materials came out all the time when I worked there. Things like laminated beams made recycled wood product was hailed as stronger than the “real” stuff.Plus it was more environmentally friendly. Plastic flooring was supposedly more scuff resistant. Admittedly I am Obsessive compulsive. So when I saw that the knot holes in the wood rustic beams in one of the models were in the same place on every beam, that gave away the fact that they weren’t actually wood at all. The average person wouldn’t have noticed.Hence the appearance of luxury is well executed.

    I think what bugs me about these is that I’m not sure if they fit into the luxury home category that they were marketed as. Sure- they are comfortable, but the overall impression I got was that they were somewhat average with some additional amenities in the form of bathroom fixtures and kitchen appliances.All stuff that costs hardly anything given the total cost of the home.

    But to again be fair, I think if you’re a Bay Area resident that does better than average financially, it was obvious to me that these were built for families with children. They’re some of the few developments I’ve seen that aren’t lofts or condos. If I ever had kids and felt that the prices in the BA were worth the expense, I’d have no problem considering one of these. That is if the prices were say 20-30% less than what they are now.They do offer some value for those who want proximity the the BA and like a more traditional family home experience. Some of the older homes in Alameda are quiet small and cramped for a family in my opinion.So perhaps that’s why they have up until recently sold so well.

    Also- the home I rent is a hybrid of new and old: the home was renovated with new materials. The home I rented before was ancient and decrepit. To be honest, I almost prefer more modern amenities. But at least the house looks classic.

    Anyhow, That’s just my take on it. Not to say that anyone else would really ever notice those things, which in the end is all that matters.

    Comment by edvard — July 17, 2007 @ 8:11 am

  16. Edvard, the wood rustic beams you talk about are styrofoam and are in that model for purely aesthetic reasons. I confirmed this with the Bayport staff because I like the look and wanted to get something similar in my home as well.

    btw, I am an “average” person and didn’t take long for me to figure that out … and it didn’t need an “insider” knowledge.

    Comment by bayporter — July 17, 2007 @ 8:40 am

  17. Different people will have different aesthetic tastes. None are better than the other. It all boils down to the consumer and what is acceptable to them.

    I will say that a majority of my clients were architects for extremely wealthy people. Styrofoam wood would have been horrifying to these customers. They also regularly spent upwards of 8-10k… on a single entry door. If any of the hand rubbed, oiled bronze entry sets I sold had even the most minuscule defect, even on a spot hidden from view, there would be HELL to pay.

    Hence this made me wonder why homes such as these were marketed as upscale. None of the materials I saw in these homes would have passed muster with any of the clients I had- save for the Viking gas stoves and Sub-Zero fridges. Thus I feel that the homes are misrepresented as such.

    Not to say that I really care. I’m not about to spend 900k on a house, or 500k for that matter, no matter what kind of home it is. But I’ll be honest and say my gut feeling which was that these homes had the look and feel of being luxurious, but missed the mark by quite a bit.

    There- I’ve said enough about these. This is just my opinion. If everyone is happy with them, then that is all that really matters anyway.

    Comment by edvard — July 17, 2007 @ 9:46 am

  18. My family has been building luxury home communitties in southern california and the east coast for over 80 years. Bayport is a nice place, with comfy nice looking homes. Bayport however is not a luxury communitty. As with most luxury developments, the homes my family built were at least 40% customed designed. These communitties have guidelines to follow i.e sq footage/lot size, number of fireplaces, how high of a structure, setbacks, and boards that decide on general asthetic matters i.e exterior colors etc.In that regard, Bayport fits in just fine with the area, I don’t live their, but I see why others would.not to mention HOA fees are SIGNIFICANTLY higher than what i know Bayporters pay.

    Comment by Mike D — July 17, 2007 @ 1:41 pm

  19. Yes, you’re absolutely correct: Bayport is not a luxury community. Yet it was marketed as such. Hence it underlines my initial impressions of the development in that they are overpriced for the product they were touted to be yet are not.

    Regardless of whether it fits in with the area, these were all built at the peak of the housing bubble and followed the same ridiculous guidelines of being overpriced and mis-marketed.

    The only good thing I can see is that builders that create such bulk communities will provide incentives and little quirks long before they go towards a price reduction plan as a last result since they don’t want to pull the carpet out from the homeowners who bought at the peak, thus immediately depressing their new home’s value.

    If you’re a homeowner in an older neighborhood, all it takes is one foreclosure or a prolonged downwards sales cycle to start eroding appreciation and value. Homeowners in mass developments are semi-insulated from depreciation for a tad longer due to the care from the homebuilders, thus there is somewhat of a degree of safety in that. How long the builders will hold off reductions is a good question.

    Comment by edvard — July 17, 2007 @ 1:51 pm

  20. I don’t think that the developer will have to worry much about discounting any home sales at Bayport. There looks to be only one or two sections left to sell. As far as mis-marketing thier homes my guess is that the folks that purchased these homes are pretty bright and had looked at many other homes before they purchased at Bayport. Looks to me like they made a good purchase and I’ll bet they don’t loose money on these deals either.

    I’m begining to wonder about this criticizum of Bayport not being a real niebhorhood, not using the correct materials, and on and on.

    personally I live in an old niehborhood and really like it. But I also can see a new young familiy wanting to buy at Bayport. It does have a new school a new park and everything else new that you could want. Why don’t we discuss those thing for awhile. John P.

    Comment by John Piziali — July 17, 2007 @ 4:00 pm

  21. “Looks to me like they made a good purchase and I’ll bet they don’t loose money on these deals either.”

    There are already a number of these for sale. The same weekend we looked at the models, there was a number of previously sold models for sale. The stupid thing was that one home was priced HIGHER than the new models just 2-300 feet away. I had the price sheet in my hand for the exact same model being sold. This home had been “owned” for less than a year.

    I’m not sure if this is a good sign of things to come…

    Comment by edvard — July 17, 2007 @ 4:19 pm

  22. “The stupid thing was that one home was priced HIGHER than the new models just 2-300 feet away”

    -I noticed something similar last time I was there(1 month). It seems a bit silly, but to each their own. While I don’t live there myself, I don’t understand why someone wouldn’t consider Bayport a “real neighborhood” it is one by definition. But it’s new . . people will get over it/use to it. I’m sure Old Gold Coasters scoffed at the mass production of tiny/virtually identical east end bungalows that now sell for 700k and are deemed acceptable homes in a well established neighborhood. Although i opted for the fernside over Bayport when buying my own home, I can see that Bayport is actually more bang for your buck. Luxury aside, try finding a decent 2200 sqf home in ferniside for 830k. As overpriced homes go, Bayport is a bargain.

    Comment by Mark D — July 17, 2007 @ 10:38 pm

  23. Edvard, why is it stupid for a 1-year home to be priced higher than the new homes which are atleast 6-9 months away from being ready? Did you factor in the cost of landscaping/painting/curtains etc and any upgrades (flooring/carpet/cabinets etc) that may have gone into the ready to move-in “older” home.

    I would’ve thought that an “expert” like you would’ve factored these details before making a blanket statement.

    As for the resales, you may not be aware that some of them are because of folks relocating within the community. I personally know of atleast 3 such instances.

    I, too, am tired of this Bayport bashing and this will be my last post on the topic. Clearly, Edvard is unwilling to buy a home at “either 900 or 500k” (see #17) and perhaps the only price that appeals to him is “free”.

    I can’t help but wonder if this is some case of sour grapes as a consequence of having not owned a home in Alameda (despite his $140k annual income). Wily, correct me if I’m wrong … it’s been a while since Wily morphed into edvard after taking a detour into superintendent and sloan land for a while. Apologies if I missed any of your other avatars :)

    Comment by bayporter — July 17, 2007 @ 10:45 pm

  24. “I can’t help but wonder if this is some case of sour grapes as a consequence of having not owned a home in Alameda (despite his $140k annual income). Wily, correct me if I’m wrong … it’s been a while since Wily morphed into edvard after taking a detour into superintendent and sloan land for a while. Apologies if I missed any of your other avatars :)

    I’ll correct you plus let you in on a little secret: I have no plans on staying here or California for that matter. For years now I’ve been quietly saving my income, investing in stocks while everyone else invested in houses,and have been sharing a house and paying criminally low rent, and otherwise living a fine life of utter frugality.

    During that time I have visited, investigated, studied, and researched other parts of the country. I’ve learned about their culture, economics,future plans for community planning, infrastructural growth, and government policies.

    I’ve compared the bls.gov site from city to city ( The Bureau of Labor Statistics) and compared the realistic cost of living per the average income in my current profession. I’ve built relations with other in my business in some of these areas as well in preparation.

    I’ve now saved up enough to not only buy our home, but also enough to set aside in a fairly healthy retirement fund. Some of you might wonder how that is possible.The reason it is possible is that most of the areas I’m looking at have nice homes- many of which sit on acreage for under 150k.Plus the cost of living is generally lower.

    I’ve almost settled on the idea of Nashville. Reason being- It has quite a bit of work in my field. Secondly, the city is growing in an intelligent, carefully planned progressive manner. The Public Transit system already has a 5 year plan on future developments including new trains, bus lines, and stations. This all for what local planners project will occur in the form of new growth. The same goes for freeways, new neighborhoods, and mixed housing. In fact, TN in general has a plan in motion for purchasing large swaths of now undeveloped land for future preservation and controlled intelligent growth.

    Nashville’s Metro Councilman David Briley is actually from San Francisco and is behind many of these plans. That’s a good thing because as far as I’m concerned, the Bay Area is pretty screwed up in terms of how badly it handles it’s housing and growth situation. Its good to have someone there who knows how to avoid turning a city like Nashville into SF and the Bay Area. He’s also running for Mayor. In Briley’s words, his family moved to Nashville because: “I wanted to raise my family here”. Interesting.

    Nashville’s public school system is ranked as one of the best in the country with a high student to teacher ratio. It is also one of the first cities in the nation to offer a new program called “Big Picture” progams. Here’s what it is all about:

    “Nashville Big Picture High School (NBPHS) will offer a rigorous, highly-personalized curriculum that combines academic work with real-world experiences and project-based learning. Students, many of whom have managed to go unnoticed through middle school, become active and accountable in their own education.” This is not a private school by the way.

    Lastly, Nashville itself is and has been predominantly Democratic for decades, which is unusual for the Southeast. All in all, a highly progressive,intelligently growing city.

    Anyhow, I could go on and on and on about this. But perhaps it clears up a few things for you as to why I might feel that it is stupid for people here to spend so much money on housing when they’re likely going to retire and move away later anyway.That’s what all the old folks did on my street anyway. Yes- I’m truly amazed that people here prescribe to such old-fashioned logic behind why they’re so desperate to buy something here. You see… I’m not jealous at all. It’s just that I’m continuously amused by the backward economic logic that oozes out of the ground here.

    Listen- the problem is that you have too many people living here and when that happens, people are going to fight for every square inch. No thanks. I’m sure most of you would never step your little toe into “Jesusland”. Good. Keep thinking that way.

    In the meantime- yes, let’s talk about how wonderful Bayport is and how those self-cleaning windows are the beat-all for home maintenance.

    Comment by edvard — July 18, 2007 @ 9:42 am

  25. re: #24:

    After reading this — while I’m not ready to run to Nashville or anywhere else, for that matter — rather than poo-poo you like other Alamedans, my question to you is “So, what stocks do you like these days?” ;)

    Comment by Dave S. — July 18, 2007 @ 10:39 am

  26. Well, in regards to stocks, I don’t invest in individual stocks. That’s one of the best ways to lose lots of money. I don’t profess to be a genius ,spending every waking minute investing in a company here or there.

    More like a diversified range of medium risk mutual funds, Asia( Dragon) funds and some Euro funds.Mostly NA based funds.

    The thing that most people don’t get is that no matter what the stock market does, over a long period stocks will on average pull a minimum of 10% per year. In other words, what you invest will more than double in less than 10 years. This by far outperforms what housing anywhere- even in CA will do. On average, housing only appreciates 4% per year.That is if you take all the years together meaning usually 5-10 years of a boom, and 5-10 years of a bust. This cycle is pretty dependable in California.

    I wouldn’t expect many to be thrilled about Nashville anyway.That’s perfectly A-ok with me. I grew up in the region in the sticks, so I’ve lived in both extremes and frankly can live just about anywhere. I’m glad I lived here. I learned quite a bbit. You learn how to be competitive, quick, and entrepreneurial.

    There’s many people my age who are doing the same as I and relocating to some of the same regions I’m eyeing. So I’m banking on the knowledge learned in faster paced areas to greatly benefit some of the up and coming cities in the form of fresh new minds and ideas.

    Just to make a point, Atlanta has an average age of 33. Can you imagine? The reason is because half of them are young professionals from up North. Interesting that my home region seems to be getting younger instead of older. I attribute this mostly to the more favorable living conditions and growing business environment.

    Along with my investment strategy, My future living plans are as much a part of what I see as excellent opportunities for business and the ability to start in a totally new and developing area, sort of the way the Bay Area used to be.

    Anyhow, I’ve rambled on enough.The secret to good investment isn’t buying companies like Apple, Microsoft, or Google.The trick is to keep it simple, don’t move your money too much, and trust that the old rule of 10% per year regardless of the market will bear out as true. That and have patience. That’s really it!

    Comment by edvard — July 18, 2007 @ 10:59 am

  27. The article backed up my original point, which is that by using a broad investment strategy in the form of broad investment tools such as national and international funds, along with LONG TERM investment plans- as in 10,20,30 years, you will on average gain roughly 10% per years.

    Actually, I’ve gained more than that for the last 4 years, which I attribute to the healthy economy.

    Believe what you want. It has worked well for me.

    Comment by edvard — July 18, 2007 @ 1:21 pm

  28. My last point on this that I think just about sums it all:

    “32 acre livestock farm, w/ large barn, 2200 sq ft home. 3 bedroom, 1 bath, living room w/ fireplace, laundry room, 2 offices, large front porch. Currently has 12 cows, 100 goats, 20 sheep, chickens, horse etc. Plenty of wildlife, deer, turkey, etc. 2 pastures, 2 springs.”

    19 miles from Nashville.

    Price ( drum roll)…: $169,000

    So… a piece of property big enough to put around 3 Bayport neighborhoods, natural features, and close to a major metro area for less than the cost of half of a down payment on one of those Bayport “model” homes.

    Now think about it for a minute… Kind of makes alarm bells go off in your heads doesn’t it? I mean- who gives a flying freak about “smart growth” and all that other crap people in places like SF fight over. On 32 acres, you’d pretty much be in your own world and whoever or whatever moves next door- 32 acres away- won’t matter will it? Kind of brings new meaning to the words:Back yard. Who cares what the neighbors do… you’d NEVER see them!!

    http://nashville.craigslist.org/rfs/370181012.html

    Comment by edvard — July 18, 2007 @ 1:31 pm

  29. I have a close friend who lives about that far north of Nashville and I go to visit there sometimes. Every time I go it is less rural and more suburban. But, at least the new houses they build are on very large lots.

    Comment by Mike Rich — July 18, 2007 @ 2:48 pm

  30. Edward,
    I know of know anyone who bought at Bayport because it was a Luxury development. We bought because of location and we liked it. I looked at places in Dublin, Napa, Livermore and Walnut Creek which I would consider luxury, larger, inlaw units over the garage, ect. We bought at Bayport mostly because of the location and the price was great for what you get in the Bay Area. We liked the houses, and we plan on staying in the Bay Area. We bought in the early stages and our plan has substantially increased. I also have money in the stock market but my returns on my house is substantially higher…although we are not planning to sell anytime soon…so it is an unrealized gain.

    Of the 5 homes which were for sale at Bayport a few weeks ago only 2 are still on the Market…what does that tell you when others are on the market for months right now. Bayporter knows of 3 people who sold or are selling their houses to buy a different model in Bayport I know of 4. People really like it here.

    I will have to admit Warmington does an extremely bad job at marketing. As Donald Trump would say, “someone should be fired”.

    I hope you like it in Nashville, one of my friends (27 year old) moved to Atlanta a couple of years ago, and although she likes it there she plans on moving back to the Bay area next fall…she said, “the grass always looks greener, but once you taste the grass, you realized it was greener where you were at”.

    Comment by Joel — July 18, 2007 @ 7:09 pm

  31. guess what? we don’t live in Nashville. I’ve got more pressing issues than the door knobs at Bayport.

    Comment by Mark — July 18, 2007 @ 7:15 pm

  32. Edvard There is a reason that so many people live here in the Bay Area.
    There is a reason that you can buy all that property with cows and chickens for $$169,000.
    It doesn’t take a genious to figure it out. John P.

    Comment by John Piziali — July 18, 2007 @ 9:34 pm

  33. Yes John, there are many reasons that so many people live in the Bay Area along with places like NYC, Chicago, and Detroit MI. They do so because of the industrialized nature of those places that resulted in a booming economy which subsequently meant the area became rapidly populated and built up.

    So yes- you win the argument that indeed- more people live in the Bay Area than Nashville or any number of other metropolitan regions.

    However, I’m not sure what you’re proving,if anything really. Simply put, the population of the entire state of TN is less than the population of even one California city. The density is far less. In fact, the surprising thing I had forgotten about is that you can drive outside of Nashville and be in the country in about 10-15 minutes.

    The reason the property in those places is cheaper is because there are simply less people living there. Simple laws of physics really. Put several million people into one confined area and you’ll get higher prices, less quality in certain infrastructures like schools, roads, and public funds, and more competition on almost all levels. Some people thrive on this challenge. Others such as myself don’t really enjoy that aspect. Live in an area that is far less populated and you lose the competition, high prices, and pressures that come with dealing with large quantities of people.

    So John, you’re absolutely correct- it doesn’t take a genius to figure out why things are less expensive there. Simple mathematics is all that is needed. But to tickle your fancy, I get your gyst which is probably one of the bigger reasons that my neck of the woods is cheaper: It’s because people in places like the Bay Area have pre-conceived notions and sweeping generalizations about what people are like in other parts of the country: There are Christians, Rednecks, Righ-Wing conservatives, and Good Ole’ Boys who will do their best to make your life miserable if you were to ever step your foot within their territory.Whether this much is actually true or not is questionable… but I’d prefer to keep this veil of mystery intact for the future preservation of the status-quo of the region. A close second would be the weather: You all have an almost ungodly fear of humidity. That and bugs. So.. in order: Christians, Humidity, Bugs. Nevermind that there’s actually quite a large artistic and intellectual community in almost any number of these other places- you gotta’ watch out for those ’skeeters’…

    Anyhow- this is my choice because I personally think it is the best decision based on what me and my wife like, and for the ability to live the way that I like to live.

    and Joel… Nashville and Atlanta are not the same creatures.The South is as diverse city per city, state by state as the West Coast. Two cities in the South might as well be the difference between Portland and San Francisco. I personally wouldn’t live in Atlanta because in all reality, it has the same congestion issues as the Bay Area. “The grass is greener” statement is a matter of personal preference. For me, the opposite it true. The grass was figuratively and literally greener from where I came.

    Anyhow, I’m not trying to tell people to move to Nashville or anywhere else. If you bought a house here, then you’re pretty much invested in the area. I realize coming on here in a forum full of die-hard Bay Area people and projecting a totally radical idea simply doesn’t mesh well.Guess that’s why they call these lil’ things forums.

    I still really care about Alameda and frankly, if it were not for here, I would have moved years ago since most of the BA looks like a pit to me and Alameda at least allowed me to make-believe that I could get away from all of that. But my one strong thought about it is that whether you as Alameda citizens take part in your own hometown or the Bay Area in general, it is your responsibility to make this area better, more accessible, and more livable for future generations- your own children for that matter. As I said- you’re invested. Make it happen.

    Comment by edvard — July 19, 2007 @ 9:12 am

  34. edvard Your reasons for wanting to go to Nashville are very good and valid. I don’t mean to look down on you becuase of the way you feel. I have just come back from the Spokane area and I really like it up there, however being born and raised in Alameda, the summer heat and mosqitoes, the freezing winters will keep me from moving there. As I am old and set in my ways I guess I will just stay here. However I would say to young folks with families they should probably do what your are thinking of doing. Go somewhere that you can afford a nice life stlye and enjoy it . John P.

    Comment by John Piziali — July 19, 2007 @ 12:56 pm

  35. John,
    Absolutely no hard feelings.I too said some rather nasty things, and for that I apologize. Now that you mention that you’re actually an Alameda native, perhaps me and you are actually on the same page more than you realize. My family has roots in the TN/NC area dating back to the 1700’s. Most of my family is still there and for the most part have continued on with the tradition of being school teachers. I was the black sheep who moved to California.

    I grew up on 15 acres off land- a large hilly farm where I spent a lot of time cutting grass, playing in the creek, and weeding the 2-3 gardens we had. In the summer we headed for the Smokey mountains and swam in the rivers.Or we headed for the Cumberland Mountains to see the sandstone formations. So that is my lifestyle and the kind of environment I am most comfortable with. Hence my desire to return.

    Like you, I have seen many changes. I’m sure that at one point, Alameda and other parts of the BA were less crowded and more reasonably priced. But thanks to the sea of people flooding in- myself being one of those- it drove prices higher and really changed things. Like yourself, I too am seeing some of the same things starting to happen back in my home area, which is that the economy is starting to take off. At the same time, many are moving in and altering the landscape. So part of my decision to make this move in the next couple of years is to be able to perhaps buy a piece of land like the one I grew up on before it too is overtaken by progress.

    Like yourself, despite being a younger guy, I too am set back in my ways. I am used to what I know best. I can fully appreciate what Alameda is and how that in many ways, it is one off the last towns within the BA that still maintains it’s identity as a separate city with it’s own unique character. I hope it will stay that way.

    Anyhow, good luck with your future endeavors.

    Comment by edvard — July 19, 2007 @ 2:31 pm

  36. Willy;
    Congrats to you – perhaps you are more on the ball than I had thought. Eastern Tennessee has really pretty country. In 1982 on my way to CA from PA I was so enamored by the natural beauty of the region that if I had not already shipped some of my stuff, I might have ended up staying near Chattanooga, or somewhere south of Knoxville. I also spent a few days visiting friends in Nashville before playing in Memphis at the great BBQ on the river. All in all, on my trip to CA over half of my time was spent in Tennessee. I was only a little younger than you when I came west, and you seem much better prepared than I was back then, when I was just looking for a new adventure. Your plan sounds good for you. I appreciate your youthful ability to re-settle, and completely understand your desire for lower density for that provides a much nicer, more humane quality of life than say Atlanta, Manhattan, SF, or LA which all share the same conditions of high crime, high density, and perpetual traffic that Action Alameda does not want to see brought to Alameda by developers drooling over the potential profit to be made by over-developing our island.
    Good luck to you.

    Comment by David Kirwin — July 19, 2007 @ 6:06 pm

  37. DK,

    Atlanta is the only city of the four that you list as a dense city with a crime rate higher than either Nashville or Memphis. In fact, Alameda’s burglary, theft and auto theft rates are higher than NYC though not the violent crimes.

    So let’s look at the density of these cities you chose to compare and make statements about crime, mind you without any actual facts.

    (households/sq mile)
    New York, NY 3064
    Los Angeles 801
    San Francisco, CA 678
    Atlanta, GA 286
    Memphis, TN 151
    Nashville, TN 131

    Over all ratings of cities bigger than 250K
    In order of ranking of crime per 100,000.
    Atlanta -#11
    Memphis #13
    Nashville #16
    SF #27
    LA #28
    NY #49

    In the end, the three lowest density communities have the highest crime rates.

    It’s actually funny that you chose Atlanta to highlight, given its nationally known for its sprawling, low density layout. It’s huge traffic problems and its inability to deal with the traffic because of its design.

    For a direct comparison of crime data between the cities you cite as crime ridden high density hell-holes and the low density wonderlands, you can check these links.

    There are benefits of low density design, and everybody I know feels that Alameda Point should have some as a part of its mix. That said, crime prevention isn’t one of them.

    NYC v. Nashville
    ATL v. Nashville
    LA v. Nashville
    SF v. Nashville
    NYC v. Memphis

    ATL v. Memphis
    LA v. Memphis
    SF v. Memphis

    Comment by johnknoxwhite — July 20, 2007 @ 6:41 am

  38. Excuse me, I should have said high amounts of crime.

    Comment by David Kirwin — July 20, 2007 @ 7:10 am

  39. which is a meaningless statistic and has nothing to do with your comment about density.

    Comment by johnknoxwhite — July 20, 2007 @ 7:26 am

  40. Sorry, morning coffee is just kicking in. By meaningless, I mean that using a nominal statistic like “high crime” to compare cities of very different sizes is like saying New York has more happy people and more people that care about their community than Alameda does.

    Without standardizing the information the sheer size of a city like NY makes it #1 in most categories good and bad.

    Comment by johnknoxwhite — July 20, 2007 @ 7:54 am

  41. Very true JKW, but most people would just agree that there is a big difference between Alameda and our country’s largest cities.

    Comment by David Kirwin — July 20, 2007 @ 3:13 pm

  42. Yes, Alameda is different from our country’s largest cities. For one thing, it is not a particularly large city, and no matter what is built on Alameda Point or anywhere else in town, it is never going to come anywhere close to the size of Chicago, Atlanta, or New York. And the point is . . . ?

    I find it odd that someone who claims to be “tired of the mind-numbing stupidity fostered by the lack of clear and honest debate” (comment #18 on the “Naming Names, Part 3″ post) would continue to make statements unsupported by fact, like “density causes crime,” despite the fact that such statements have been directly refuted multiple times by a number of different writers, all of whom cited sources to back them up.

    It’s fine to argue that “people don’t like high density.” It’s certainly true that some people don’t like high density, just as some people don’t like low density. From there, we might go on to have a meaningful discussion about what kind of development a majority of Alamedans would like to see. However, why continue to make objective-sounding statements like “density causes crime” when the facts presented simply don’t support that view? How exactly does that promote a “clear and honest debate”?

    Comment by Michael Krueger — July 20, 2007 @ 4:37 pm

  43. Micheal There can be no “clear and honest debate” between you JKW, and David it just isn’t possible. John P.

    Comment by John Piziali — July 20, 2007 @ 4:50 pm

  44. When I wrote my statement in post #37, I was responding to
    “edvard”’s post about moving to Tennessee. Let me remind you of the statement that I made there, which went EXACTLY like this:

    “I appreciate your youthful ability to re-settle, and completely understand your desire for lower density for that provides a much nicer, more humane quality of life than say Atlanta, Manhattan, SF, or LA which all share the same conditions of high crime, high density, and perpetual traffic that Action Alameda does not want to see brought to Alameda by developers drooling over the potential profit to be made by over-developing our island.”

    Nowhere did I mention crime rates as JKW objected to in post #38, nor did I state here that density causes crime as Michael Kruger objects to.

    It is really rather shameful that a few here want to make arguments to discredit what I didn’t even write in an attempt to discredit me, or what I DID write. It’s yet another attempt in their same worn out M.O. to mask realities.

    It seems ever more shameful that Michael Kruger and John Knox White take such liberties, because it reflects so poorly on the Transportation Committee to which they have both been appointed, since it becomes apparent yet again how they play their games on the public.

    Comment by David Kirwin — July 20, 2007 @ 8:05 pm

  45. DK, you wrote “Nowhere did I mention crime rates… nor did I state here that density causes crime”
    I obviously misunderstood what you wrote, the sentence you quote seemed to make some pretty strong statements about density and quality of life which you define as different than high crime and perpetual traffic. We’ve already discussed the “high crime” issue, if you truly meant to say that more crime happens, then the statement is not meaningful.
    If that’s what you meant, then you were literally saying to Edvard, “Have a great move to Nashville where there’s less crime overall, you’ll have a great quiet, bucolic life even though the chance of you getting murdered is twice as high as places like NYC.”
    I have a hard time believing that’s what you were saying. I think its more likely that you were saying that low-density city’s like Nashville have lower crime rates and that you can understand and respect his move there. Unfortunately, the facts don’t back that up.
    To say that you said nothing about density and crime is ludicrous. You specifically say that low density “provides for a much nicer, more humane quality of life.” Furthermore, you define that as the opposite of high density cities with their “high crime, high density and perpetual traffic.”
    You then go even further to say that Action Alameda “does not want to see [high crime….] brought to Alameda by developers….over-developing our island.” Again, you specifically wrote that the crime, etc. will be caused by increased development. As everyone knows that Action Alameda is a low-density housing (some would say anti-density) group, there is a direct connection between your statement, density and crime.
    I have honestly tried to understand your comment in a context in which you weren’t specifically tying density and crime together. I would be happy to hear how you weren’t talking about density, crime, etc.
    Your further comments fall within a continuum of comments that you make about the motives of certain people with whom you feel you disagree. Having never provided one tiny shred of evidence to back any of them up, I won’t dignify them with a response.
    My last (and final) comment will be to the perpetual traffic issue. You do realize that the majority of the crushing traffic experiences in NY, Atlanta, San Francisco, etc. come from the low density, outlying areas. It’s the sprawl that brings the perpetual traffic.

    Comment by johnknoxwhite — July 21, 2007 @ 8:51 am

  46. JKW – I doubt you mean, or believe what you say in the above post. I am sure most people would understand what I wrote in both post #37 & #45, but you insist on taking an indefendable point of view and then assign statements to me that were not made. I am not talking about crime ‘rates’ in post 37. Get this – you are the only one who would argue that Atlanta or LA has more crime or traffic than a suburb of Nashville.

    Your twists of logic bode ill for anything you say, or want to do to Alameda via your position on the traffic commission.

    It has been admitted that the purpose of TC is to achieve more funds to promote higher density traffic in Alameda. You know the city needs to increase what is defined as acceptable traffic delays to continue to increase the number of housing units developers want to build. You want to attempt more HOV because the infrastructure of our roadways, especially the estuary crossing, cannot meet present traffic standards with the amount of development you seem to want to support. Your present goal seem to be to aimed at making it more difficult for drivers to move about, or on and off the island with the thought that if it can be made bad enough, then more people will seek to use the bus system even though it is more expensive and so much less convenient for them.

    Most Alamedans do not appreciate this direction of yours. Most Alamedans appreciate the relative safety of our neighborhood streets and do not want that to change.

    There are other ways John, to grow a community, but is slower and probably less profitable for developers who want to make all the bucks in one big bang. There are also better ways to “grow” an acceptance and use of public transportation use. Hint: starting with huge empty busses on an inconvenient schedule is not a big help to your cause. While on one hand I would love to debate this with you, I find the ridiculously twisted logic of you and MK to be far too infuriating and I’m tired of wasting my time with either of you.

    Comment by David Kirwin — July 21, 2007 @ 10:12 am

  47. DK,

    I again invite you to this month’s Transportation Commission meeting (this Wednesday at City Hall at 7:30pm) where I will be most happy to spend some time talking about your concerns. I’d encourage you to come and participate, I think you’ll get a better understanding as to what the TC actually does, and where it actually stands on the issues you mention above.

    Hope to see you there.

    Comment by johnknoxwhite — July 21, 2007 @ 1:35 pm

  48. JKW et al.,

    Who takes the minutes and writes the agenda for the TC meetings?

    I was at the joint CC/TC where Councilmember Matarrese suggested or requested that we try to find ways to improve traffic flow at the two busiest roadways in our city. The two that exceed 30,000 trips per day are the confluence of roads on this city’s side of the Webster/Posey Tubes and Island Dr., the main entry to Bay Farm Island.

    Now according to the TC’s agenda for the next mtg, the TC has been developing strategies to reduce the number of single occupant vehicle (SOV) trips. This is a significantly different task. There are many ways to improve traffic flow, not just reducing SOV trips. In fact popular methods of reducing SOV trips include inhibiting traffic flow, which is the opposite of what I believe was supposed to be examined.

    This again points to reasons why I personally do not have trust in the way the TC operates. They are not elected, the meetings are not on the webcast, and clearly it appears they can reinterpret their purpose to meet the personal agendas of individuals serving on the commission, and their personal goals for the development of the island.

    Another item on the agenda for the next mtg this Wed is to increase the powers of the TC in altering City Policy.
    Holy Cow, you’ve got me scared now!

    Comment by David Kirwin — July 21, 2007 @ 6:57 pm

  49. DK,

    1. As with all commissions, boards and the council, city staff writes the agendas and provides the minutes.

    2. The congestion issue before the TC is the first commission discussion (a brief organizational meeting was held by the multimodal subcommittee, the only direction taken was asking staff to bring forward the action plan that is being presented on Wednesday) of the issue following the tc/cc joint meeting, so feel free to bring you POV to the meeting and express it. My guess is that you’ll find a very receptive ear. The issue is to look at Staff’s recommended plan of action on the direction given by council.

    At the joint cc/tc meeting, the two specific methods the council asked the tc to look at in attempting to minimized congestions at the tube and island/doolittle were reducing school trips to lincoln school and increasing transit usage, etc through the tubes. Specifically looking at park and ride, etc. to provide more options. They certainly didn’t limit the decisions to this and I haven’t heard any talk of limiting it to these two items.

    I encourage you (and anyone interested) to bring you traffic flow improvement ideas to the meeting to get them on the table for discussion.

    3. As I’ve said before, I have been pushing for a year to get the TC meetings televised, I am told they are close to happening, perhaps even this week. In the past, I have encouraged you to write the city manager, council and/or public works department on the subject in support of this goal.

    4. As you were at the meeting, I’m sure that you will recognize the “city policy” discussion as being a direct request of the council. While I again encourage you to bring your comments on Wednesday, I’d suggest you also bring your concerns up with the council as well, as they are the final arbiters of the decision. As it stands, the revisions are an attempt by the council to bring the operations of the Transportation Commission into line with those of other boards and commissions by changing the language in the Alameda Municipal Code to reflect the councils intent in forming the commission.

    Hope to see you (and others) on Wednesday.

    Comment by john knox white — July 22, 2007 @ 11:36 am

  50. Kirwin, be sure to wear your aluminum hat on Wednesday so that the amazing mind control powers of JKW’s commission don’t overwhelm you.

    Comment by notadave — July 23, 2007 @ 8:05 am

  51. The comments pertaining to crime and congestion are kind of broad, but technically correct in terms of how they apply to most cities. That said, while it might not be fair to generalize, most crime usually happens in lower income areas. I’m not going to back up those claims, but at least from my own personal experience in cities like Memphis, Nashville, and Atlanta, the vast majority of the crime in these cities happen in clearly defined pockets.

    My Aunt lives in Memphis and has done so for 30 years-long before it began it’s rejuvenation and gentrification. While she lives in a sort of artsy, hip, safe area with beautiful old houses, there are certainly a few areas that have bad crime problems. I’d say that if Oakland had a sister, Memphis would be it because both are very similar in their racial, economic,size and cultural composition. Similarly, their crime also occurs in distinct areas. If you live there- you don’t go to certain places.

    Secondly, cities in the Southeast are totally different than the cities on the coasts. The transition of older,wealthier, white people moving back into the cities themselves as has occurred in cities like SF and NYC, essentially reversing urban decay and replacing it with urban gentrification has only just begun in most cities in the South. So in some ways, places like Nashville and Raleigh are in the same place SF was around 20 years ago, meaning the cities are only now starting to see the effects of rejuvenation. I have friends who have lived in SF since the 80’s and according to them, SF used to be a scary, grubby, crime-infested place. SF like many other cities have had a total reversal of that situation which means lower to middle income people cannot afford to live there. Less lower income people means less crime, as bad and politically incorrect as that sounds.

    My point is that while data might show cities like Atlanta as having a higher crime index, this is because urban decay is at this point still a factor there. Translation: Most people actually live outside the city and commute in, hence the traffic, but the traffic itself isn’t a crime factor. Most of these cities have very small populations because they are not densely settled. If you look at any city from the late 60’s up until the late 80’s across both coasts, you would see the same pattern: high percentages of the workforce living in the suburbs while the city housed a high percentage of lower income residents.

    This is all changing. For example, you could buy a house in East Nashville for under 40k less than 4 years ago. It was cheap because the area was a bad neighborhood. 4 years later, it is a growing hip, artsy, young 20-somethings area and a home is around 90k. Still cheap compared to BA standards, but to see a massive transition like this is indicative of what can be expected for the future, which is a possible replication of the BA’s complete transition into a gentrified,expensive area thus another reason I’m moving there before this can happen.

    I think in the case of Alameda, everyone here should be transparent in what they think is realistically going to happen. I’m under an impression that no matter what, new housing is going to be developed on the Navy base. It will likely be expensive and opulent. The fact that a rather boring looking house not far from my place just sold for 850k tells me that despite the current down cycle, there are many who still have very deep pockets. Given enough money, a company will probably develop upper end homes on the water for some of the BA’s most affluent residents. This will continue to alter Alameda’s transition from a quaint, small, kitchy town and align it with places like Marin, the Oakland Hills, and so forth until most of the shops and restaurants will themselves increasingly cater to a wealthier clientèle. So while Alameda might still retain a physically similar appearance as it does today, I imagine that the kinds of people who live here will make it a very different place and change the atmosphere. I’ve only lived here for 7-8 years and I’ve seen this transition to some extent already.

    If that is to be the future of Alameda, then I guess everyone who has a hand in the city’s future should ask themselves about how they feel about that image. If everyone likes it, then everything should be quite rosy and wonderful.

    Comment by edvard — July 23, 2007 @ 9:31 am

  52. Edward,

    You want to see an overprice house look at 106 Pacific Ave, Alameda 94501, for 1000 sq ft they want $639,000. That is ridiculous…who would pay that much money for a small cottage…my 1 bedroom apartment in the City was larger than that and it had a view. I will assume it will be on the market for a long, long time if it ever sells.

    Comment by Joel — July 23, 2007 @ 7:18 pm

  53. [...] recent rant on Lauren Do’s website (almost three days later, it has appeared on Don Roberts’ site today, I’m not clear if [...]

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